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Do you belive in god?

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Offline Shane

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Do you belive in god?
« on: May 30, 2004, 05:18:38 PM »
I don't intend for this to become an argument but I'm just curious to know who here dose or dose not belive in god and why they feel this way.

I was raised as a Catholic but I do not belive it. I belive that there is a god but I do not belive in religon. I do not belive the things that are in the bible or the old testiment (not even going to try and spell the jewish book). I belive that religon was created to keep people from being all savage like because if people didn't fear hell in the back of their minds they would have little if any reason to be good people. So I belive that there is a god just not in any particular religon...Im sure theres a word for this I just cant think of it at the moment.

Linkback: https://www.gynecomastia.org/smf/index.php?topic=61.0
-Shane

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Offline buccsfan

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Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2004, 06:01:39 PM »
Shane you should read that post I made about Christianity the guys on here really blew it out of proportion. I just asked a simple question then they started writing scriptures and all this other boring stuff. Anyway I feel somewhat like you in a way. My family is very religous and they are all methodist/ baptist. I do have things happen in my life that make me beleive that there is a god and then I have some things happen that make me question him. For instance the way my life has been working out here lately has been great and I cant ask for much more. A few months ago everything that could possibly go wrong, went wrong. I dont want to not beleive because my luck has been very good here lately but no one really knows if there is a God, we all choose to beleive or not. Sometimes the way things work out for me, make me feel like their is someone up above looking out for me. Sometimes I just wish that God would come to me in a way that I know without a doubt that he is true, that is without a near death experience or him scarring the $hit out of me. I wanna just be walking around or just chillen and he say hey boy im God and I am real so have faith in me and I will say ok cool holla at you later. Anyway I think this is a good topic and I want to know how the rest of the guys feel. I do want to ask one thing though. Guys please dont do any preaching or posting scriptures from the bible because that dosent mean anything at all. All that means is that you can READ and follow ORDERS ! I want to know about life experiences and how you all really feel. Not what someone else told you or what you read.
You cant BULL$HIT a BULL$HIT

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Freedom.Finally

Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2004, 10:23:29 AM »
Agreed, that the last thread went beyond the understanding of most of the people on this board, but it was all (at least my posts) entirely related to the topic, which was simply titled "Christianity."

I won't restate all of that discourse on this thread, but I will state why I DO believe in God, and why I KNOW that the Bible is true and that the God of the Bible exists.

I have copied and pasted a post that I wrote on another forum (oddly enough, the thread on that forum was started by a person that frequents this forum... yet I won't mention his name).  What I did in that post, of which I am recreating below, is give him reasons WHY the Bible can be accepted as true.  

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The Bible, although physically penned by man, was inspired by God. The Bible claims this to be so. Don't believe this just because I say so (I know you wouldn't anyway, nor would I expect anyone to), or even because the Bible says so. Believe the Bible because it demonstrates it's transcendency through various means, as listed below:

1) Manuscript evidence. Of any ancient book, we have by far more copies of the ancient writings of the Bible than any other book. They date back thousands of years. We can compare these manuscripts to the Bible that we have on our shelves today and see that it has been faithfully translated down through the centuries/millenia. The procedure used by the Jewish scribes for copying the Scriptures was very meticulous. So meticulous that you would not believe the extent they would go to in order to ensure accurate copying. So, what this proves is that the Bible that you and I have now is a copy of the same Scriptures that were originally given. We know we have an accurate and faithful rendition of the ancient text. By the way, the Dead Sea Scrolls did MUCH to confirm all of this. The Dead Sea Scrolls are some the oldest manuscripts that we now possess and they, likewise, attest to the accuracy of the Bible we have today.

2) Archaeological Evidence. Practically every archaeological dig that has ever been done in the Middle East has confirmed, the places and events of the Bible. The places in the Bible are real places. They do exist. They are not made up places of neverland (like in the Book of Mormon). The ancient peoples of the Bible were real people. They, too, actually existed. We have many records of such things. As a matter of fact, one of the most remarkable finds in the last century was that of an ancient stone that had the name of Pontius Pilate on it! It goes on and on. So, the people and places of the Bible are presently known from history.

3) Predictive Prophecy. This one is by far the most amazing. Did you know that at the time the Bible was written, over 2/3 of it was written regarding thing/events that had not yet transpired? This is what we call "predictive prophecy." Now, as thousands of years have passed, we have the luxury of looking back on hindsight and seeing the literal fulfillment of those prophecies. There are many yet that haven't occured. But, seeing so many already happen, we have no reason to doubt that the rest will not also take place. We can be sure of it.

4) Science of Statistical Probability. There have been many studies and excerises employed by scientists and others in the field that have taken the fulfilled prophecies of the Bible and attempted to place a "what are the odds of them all happening by accident" figure on them. It is scientifically accepted that anything with a chance of 10 to the 50th power (that's 10 with 50 zeroes after it) is a mathematic impossibility.
Well, it has been demonstrated that that benchmark (10 to the 50th) can be achieved by using a relatively small number of the available fulfilled prophecies that we have at "our disposal." Using the scientific method of statistical probability it is easily demonstrated that the Bible was supernaturally designed.

This subject is far too reaching to fully address in this post, but my point is to show you some reasons of WHY the Bible CAN be relied upon as an authoritative source.
I, like you, need to know that what I am believing is logical and sound. I can tell you that the Bible is unlike any other book on earth. It is more up to date than tomorrow's newspaper, literally. That is not a figure of speech. It has, through the years, foretold many, many events that have taken place on earth. Likewise, it foretells many events that WILL take place on earth in our near future than haven't yet occured.

Also, one other aspect of the Bible that I find truly amazing is its scientific accuracy. The Bible is amazingly accurate on scientific matters. The Bible speaks about evaporation, the jet streams, and the spherical nature of the earth. These things were written around 930BC.
The Bible speaks of the dimensional nature of the universe. In many areas the Bible alludes to the fact that we are not in a 3 dimensional universe. The Bible speaks of the laws of thermodynamics and that of entropy. It is astounding.

I hope that this has at least given you some things to think about regarding why the Bible is authoritative. Like a previous poster said, I, nor anyone else, can make you believe. Only God can do that. Only God can open your eyes. But, you have to be willing to allow Him to open them. I believe you are willing, as evidenced by your presence on this board, and that of others that you apparently were "let go" from.

May God bless you as you continue to pursue the purpose for which you are on this planet.

Let me leave you with one Bible verse that you may find provocative.

"...For what is your life? For it is a vapor, which appears for a little time, and then disappears." -- James 4:14b

That is all our life is. On the "timeline of eternity" our life is nothing more than a vapor. They type of vapor that rises from the hot water on your bathroom sink and attaches to your mirror. Your mirror fogs up for but a moment, and then it is gone.
So, too, is your life here on this earth. So is mine. The time that you spend on this earth is absolutely nothing compared to the "time" you will spend in eternity. It serves us well to make certain that we prepare for that eternity.

Like Maximus says in the movie Gladiator, "what we do in life echoes in eternity." That is very true.

Anyways, I'm glad to see you here on these boards. It is evidence that God is working to bring you to Himself. God worked in me in much the same way.

Christianity isn't a mindless religion. You don't have to check your brain at the door. It is a very reasonable and rational faith.

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This was probably more info than you expected, so it must be your lucky day  ;)
Now, as long as nobody challenges the scientifically provable facts that I have laid out above this will be my first and final post on the subject :)
I just needed to make sure that this ever so important perspective gets proper exposure.

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Screwgyne

Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2004, 11:02:56 AM »
Gruff, lay off bro.  FF is just passionate about religion, that's all.

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Freedom.Finally

Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2004, 02:15:03 PM »
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FF you clearly have verbal diarhorrea, the guys just wanted a little chat on the existance of god...

Gruff


Well Fonzie, how is that not on topic?  A little too intelligent for the thread?

Anyways, PLEASE DO NOT draw this into another breast for tat exchange.   Let's just leave it alone and let each person make up their own mind.  Not everyone thinks alike and not everyone is looking for the same thing.

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Offline buccsfan

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Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2004, 04:05:42 PM »
Yes Freedom I do think that you have over done it a bit. All you had to say was that you beleive in God because most of the prophecies have came true and that archaeological evidence proves alot of the cities and people are true. And yes your writings are somewhat hard to comprehend sometime, I think you may be one of those SMART GUYS. You also put a scripture from the bible in your post to which tells us nothing that we cant find on our own. You also need to chill with the big words this is the lounge area not the executive suite.

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Offline Shane

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Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2004, 04:45:52 PM »
Also Id like to add the more intelegent I get and the more school I go through the less I belive in the bible and the less I belive in god especialy this year after taking Biology. And I would not like this post to become an argument.

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Freedom.Finally

Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2004, 05:45:24 PM »
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FF i see you have amended your response to me.

For the benefit of anyone reading my last post, basically FF in his unedited response went on to say how we were all thick and just because we couldnt understand his posts that was our fault not his own. And that he shouldnt have to "dumb down' his writings just so us mere mortals could understand.

Gruff



Fonzie, that's not at all what it said, except for the "I shouldn't need to dumb it down for your (Gruff's) sake" part.
In any event, my editing of the post was an attempt to NOT turn this thread away from the topic and into a flame war.
It was a demonstration of maturity, recognizing that the way I stated my previous post was not conducive to friendly discussion.  You should try it sometime.

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Freedom.Finally

Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2004, 05:47:46 PM »
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And I would not like this post to become an argument.


Shane, what a profound thought!  Seriously.  I think I'm going to make that my signature!  Might save me a lot of trouble!


Buccs, you are right about what you said.  But, like I said in my original post, I simply copied that from a different post I had already done, so it only took me about 10 seconds... vs. retyping anything, even a simplified version.

In any event... can we please move on.  Thanks.

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Offline headheldhigh01

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Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2004, 10:33:21 PM »
shane, that's a very big topic.  i'd say i used to believe it on somewhat intellectual grounds, but after discovering how much gyne's messed up my girlfriend situation and life, and i mean seriously big time, intellectual arguments (and i'm familiar with both the pros and cons of ff's post, you'd see the other side if mike were to weigh in) alone just don't cut it for me much now.  i do think there are strongly compelling evidentiary accounts, which i won't go into, as that's still mostly second hand (and there are weirder aspects to the issue still).   i agree there's a much greater need for the experiential, which however long i've been at it i'd describe as in my case still in process.  so stay honest and see how it goes from there.  

btw, the word you were looking for was probably agnostic, and the jewish law specifically (vs the tanakh as a whole) is the torah (accent on 2nd syllable) ;)  
* a man is more than a body will ever tell
* if it screws up your life the same, is there really any such thing as "mild" gyne?

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Offline buccsfan

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Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2004, 07:34:09 AM »
FF you shouldnt have copyied and pasted your answer because we wanted different answers in this one compared to the last, more simple answers. Shane I will admit that the older I became and the more experiences I had in life the less I beleived in God. After going through hell with gyne and girlfriends and other family problems you start to not think that there is some guy floating around looking out for you. My mom sometimes bothers me because she is very religous and she praises God for everything. I mean she is really brainwashed and she cant she things any other way. I live according to facts, she lives according to what other people (pastors) and the bible tells her. I think talking to FF would be like talking to my mom, they dont think for themselves. You may ask them a question and want an answer that comes from them and all they are gonna do is refer you to some scripture or start telling you what God said or did. Anyway, I do beleive in God but  am not brainwashed.

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Freedom.Finally

Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2004, 08:58:18 AM »
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FF you shouldnt have copyied and pasted your answer because we wanted different answers in this one compared to the last, more simple answers.


I understand, Buccs.  However, that was all "new material" not previously mentioned.  I agree that perhaps it was a bit much, but when I saw this thread go up I thought, "I just addressed one of the reasons why I believe the Bible."  So, it seemed a little too easy to just bring the info over.  Sorry to overwhelm anyone. :)

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I think talking to FF would be like talking to my mom, they dont think for themselves. You may ask them a question and want an answer that comes from them and all they are gonna do is refer you to some scripture or start telling you what God said or did. Anyway, I do beleive in God but  am not brainwashed.



Buccs, believe it or not, I was probably at one time not much different from yourself.  During my HS years I was a BIG partier, in my late teens and early 20's I was heavily into the rave scene. Sold and did drugs. I DJ'd parties and raves for a few years and generally just "lived it up."  I certainly wasn't born in a religious family and wasn't given any religious guidance by my family.
Jesus Christ simply changed my life. It is really that simple. Since then, I am a completely changed person.  Sure, I still lack in many areas, and probably always will to some extent, but I am in no way "brainwashed."  You see, I have the vantage point of both perspectives.  I understand your perspective, having lived in a similar manner.  But, now I have the advantage of a different perspective... one that you don't yet enjoy.  Therefore, although you cannot relate to my new perspective, I know all about your current perspective.
Some people can tend to be "so heavenly minded they're no earthly good," but I wouldn't consider myself as being that.  I bet I am more in tune with what is happening in this world than most of the peeps on this board.

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Freedom.Finally

Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2004, 09:54:47 AM »
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In tune are we FF?

these are very recent quotes coming from the self acclaimed in tune with the nation FF, judge for yourselves if this sounds like a man in tune:

I find it so ridiculous when I see a Mexican guy driving down the road in his car with a bumper sticker that says "MEXICO."  If he loves Mexico so much, why did he come here?

Homosexuality/lesbianism is unnatural and immoral.  It is a perversion.  There is no contending that issue.  Therefore, it shouldn't be sanctified by the state.



Fonzie, when I said "in tune," I meant "on top of current events."  I didn't mean "I agree with everything under the sun."  Go back and read my post.  I said in tune "with what is happening."
Anyways, let's not let this get off topic.  For the benefit of the thread, I won't respond to this type of nonsense any longer in this thread.
If you like, start a "FF is way off base" thread.

One last point.  Funny how nobody has successfully derailed either of those two statements above in the thread they were taken from.  ;)
Your only hope is to selectively take a sentence here and a sentence there out of their original context in order to paint a biased picture.
If you want to debate anything else that is off topic then go start that thread.  I'll follow right behind you ;)

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Offline buccsfan

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Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2004, 10:24:55 AM »
Buccs, believe it or not, I was probably at one time not much different from yourself.  During my HS years I was a BIG partier, in my late teens and early 20's I was heavily into the rave scene. Sold and did drugs. I DJ'd parties and raves for a few years and generally just "lived it up."  (freedom finally)

Hey um FF I am not big into partying or any of that. I havent been to a party in over a year maybe longer. I dont really deal with a lot of people, not as friends anyway. All I am about is making $$$$$. I havent had time to go out and party and do all that. I am not exactly a very friendly person, the only time I want to go out is when it is just me and my g/f. Also I havent even seen any drugs in over a month. I know all of you picture me as some little scrubby drug dealer who parties all the time, but actually I am very professional with the way I do things. I deal drugs with class, I am all about bussiness and thats it.

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Freedom.Finally

Re: Do you belive in god?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2004, 10:49:09 AM »
Buccs, I'm not sure how I stereotyped you.  I was simply letting you in on my past.
Anyways, I wasn't "scrubby" either.  I drove a BMW and wore $500 DKNY pants.
But, clothes and the car don't make one classy.


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