I feel normal and then I'm reminded

I feel normal and then I'm reminded
« on: November 09, 2008, 08:35:00 pm »
Sometimes I forget, but then I'm reminded all over again. I quickly flee the scene. Have like a tight chest and my head feels like its all swollen up, heavy and gonna explode. After that all subsides, I feel super hungry, and used to eat two wole pizzas to myself and still have room for burgers and chips. Luckily, I've learned to have a bit of discipline since then.

I'm 22, and I remember people calling me a specific nickname at the age of 10. So I guess I've had it for 12 years now.

From 11-18, it wasn't a huge a problem psychologicially. People would make fun of it, but I felt okay back then. I went to an all guys school, didn't know any girls throughout my whole teen years. So when guys took the piss, it wasn't too bad cos it was just guys and tbh, I also thought I was just fat anyway. i.e. if I was bothered it'd go away. Plus I grew up with those guys, and despite those few jokes in the locker room, they knew I was smart and that I was athletic enough under all that flab. I left weighing 87kg and I'm 5'7.

Saying that, for the first two years, I somehow managed to avoid (skive) swimming lessons everytime so no one ever had to see me with my shirt off for a whole games lesson.

Then I got to college. Man it was a complete shock to system. I picked one of the worst places to go too. A sporting college where its majority men. So not only are all the guys tall and built here compared to my short fat and man boobed ass, but I've also got the nice handicap of not having ever spoken to girls for 7 years, not to mention other factors which probably work against me like I don't drink alcohol.

My first year was a disaster. Everyone seemed so superficial here. Guys would take one look at me and write me off as a fat shit, girls wouldn't even notice me. Only one person spoke to me in that first year as a friend and the other sorta as an aquaintence I guess in lectures. I hated that year, I was constantly depressed cos I sucked so much socially.... and so I ate my way upto 95kg.

That summer I got home, and more than anything else, for health reasons decided I needed to get slim or I was gonna die an obese fat darn. Plus, even i hated how jiggly my breasts had gotten.

I got myself down to 85kg that summer before I went back for second year. I sort of knew I was gonna be a non-entity again but decided, everyone took the piss out of me the year before, I was just gonna go for a numbers game, and if anyone was decent, they wouldn't care much, especially like my friend from first year.

I made a few new friends, except, still all guys. I found out I have no fear going upto people. I can walk upto anyone. Especially guys. My main problem is, once I get there, I don't have much to say. I find talking to guys easier, mainly cos they respond. Talk to girls, most of the time, they blank/one word answer me. If I do get started with a girl... I say things in the wrong type of way, and er darn up.
I have no humour I have no empathy and I flirt. So when it comes to talking to girls, I'm pretty fucked from under-developed social skills... which really don't help in this male dominated enviroment.

Worse, I found out while I might suck with women, my friends, all of them, are just great at letting me walk over, start em off, then coming over and then beating me out verbally. That's fine tbh. I can handle I suck with women. But what really pisses me off is if I hung around, they'd grab my chest in front of that girl, point out I have man boobs and leave me feeling like shit. If they didn't know it before, the horrified look on her face certainly meant she knew now. Whole of second year, I got along with those guys til they needed to impress some poon, which point, I was all fair game. I left college that year at 80kg. I went to asia that summer and came back a week before third year at 75kg and mid teens in bodyfat terms too. Best shape of my life.

Third year was a world of change. For the first time in my life girls were approaching me... and I assure you as a guy now in fourth year, its not cos I've gotten better with women... especially verbally. They might've approached me, but I still messed it up there. But once again, the thing which pissed me off all year... even if a girl did give me 5 secs for once, some male thingy would grab my chest, or drag me out of my room while i had my shirt off... and well that pretty much killed it there. I once again became invisible to those girls. Heck I'm invisible to 99% of girls and just a fat ass to 100% of guys. And that's what pissed me off, I wasn't even fat anymore, but I still had shitty man boobs, so i still got some disrespect. But no where near what i used to. That's a definate. People treated me better as i got fitter... which makes me laugh inside, cos most people assume/tell me its cos I was more confident. Heck no, the exact opposite has been happening inside. I feel more neurotic and unconfident because it all feels like a superficial game. meeting ppl i felt more nervous cos I knew back in first year that one mate who i got on with defo didn't judge me on external factors. I was now getting on with people who barely knew anything about me. Most of these people don't even know shit about me or who I am still. none of them ever come to my room. plus I've become more and more aware of how much i suck with girls. I still would get upset when someone would point out my issue, especially in front of people i didn't know or girls to make themselves look better, but unlike first and second years, I wasn't getting in the state I described above. I just felt a bit miffed but felt used to it. It was also meant to be my final year, so I was looking forward to escaping that hell and getting into the real world. Guys try alot harder here cos of the lack of girls and well I get that I'm just someone to be stepped on.

I fell ill tho last year. Had to have major surgery, and have gained 8kg upto 83kg. I haven't been able to do much physically til recently, and am slowly easing back into exercise. I've had to come back for a fourth year to finish what i started last year. Its going crap this year. Girls blanking me again, guys mocking me, and tbh, I don't feel as confident as i did last year, physically or mentally. Like i was just standing in a lift with 2 guys and a girl holding a slice of cake. someone asked me if i enjoyed lunch, and i said yeh and some bellend just poked me in my chest and said "you shouldn't be eating that, you're a bit fat". I didn;t say anything back more cos i was stunned at what'd just said and it came to my floor, but it pissed me off. I sometimes and super slow with words, which doesn't help here. A few days back my mate grabbed them and started messing with them like they're boobs pretending to come onto me. i just played along, even tho i felt uncomfortable tho cos it was in front of people i only half-know. i do find sometimes doing that no one notices/cares. But just sitting at dinner today, i was sitting with 2 ppl i didn't know too well and a guy i met last year. he grabbed em randomly and started jiggling them in front of the other two guys and i just panicked. stood, up, took my tray with me, threw it in the wash bit and ran to my room. My chest felt tight, got an instant smashing headache and i feel all drained and weak now. even now, still feel like just ordering a few pizzas from dominos all to myself, and if it wasn't for a lack of cash, i'd probably have scoffed a few already. heck, even tho i know he didn't mean it in a rude way, my new next door neighbour made a joke about my "moobs" while i was wearing a white t-shirt. it always feels like, "hell if he's noticing, is everyone?"

I hate being here. Always get reminded that I don't even know girls as friends, that's how big a virgin I am, and that I'm every normal guys little whipping boy to make them look good. And I can't do much about getting in half-decent shape again where less people notice... or at least say less about it.

I feel fine, and then I get reminded, and any confidence I did have just dissapears.

My best mate has graduated, and my other good friend is suffering from clinical depression right now. Even when i try, people don't take it seriously. Really got no one I feel I can talk to about this.

I feel lonely.

Linkback: https://www.gynecomastia.org/smf/index.php?topic=16126.0

Offline Paa_Paw

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Re: I feel normal and then I'm reminded
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2008, 05:35:05 am »
There is almost never any physical impact from gynecomastia. The impact is almost 100% emotional and it can be catastrophic.

You are not some kind of nut, Your reaction to your situation is actually quite normal. If I thought you were nuts, I'd recommend a Psychiatrist and that is the furthest thing from my mind.

But, I would recommend that you see a Counselor or Psychologist. You are socially disconnected and depressed. You need help coping with your situation. Even more important, you need an advocate.

As a full time student, you may well qualify for treatment under your parents medical insurance. While insurance companies routinely deny requests for cosmetic surgery, a Psychologist might be able to make a case that your overall health and wellbeing have been adversely effected by your gynecomastia and get surgery authorized when you alone would be powerless to do so.

Even if they cannot get surgery covered by insurance, perhaps they can rally your family to your support and help you in other ways.

What have you got to lose?
Grandpa Dan

Offline Dave_8

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Re: I feel normal and then I'm reminded
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2008, 08:31:16 am »
Dude, that is some hard shit to go through. I feel the same as you do. I feel like guys and girls ignore me because they look at me like I'm weak and nerdish, even though I have a lot of friends, both male and female, but they seem to get more attention then I do from others. But I just tell myself to screw everyone else who thinks their better than me, because I have better friends than they do and I'm a great person on the inside. Just hang in there bro, things will get better, once you find peace within yourself and get the surgery, you will feel like a million bucks.
If you have gyne, dont expect not be laughed at.

Just like if you walk into a locker room, you're gonna see some hairy asses and dicks.

Unfortunately for me, both have occured in my life way too many times.

Re: I feel normal and then I'm reminded
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2008, 03:18:31 am »
It's okay. We all know exactly how it feels like  :'( I'm constantly reminded myself whenever I try to look happy and feel as if everything is ok. I feel your pain. We'll get through it.

Re: I feel normal and then I'm reminded
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2016, 05:29:26 pm »
Hi all

I wanted to reply here (8 years later) to tell you how much the responses to this thread helped me out and though I was really a lurker at the time, how it all worked out.

I was reminded of this moment when talking to a beautiful young woman I am supervising at work. Telling her how easy change was and she could change her mentality with the right tools and if she really wanted. To give her the example of what was possible, I let her read this, clearly one of my lowest points. She tells me she was stunned and I am clearly not the same person. in fact, it gave a point of relation as she had suffered with anorexia at one point.

I never took counselling. With hindsight, I do not know if I needed it or not. I may be oblivious to issues. I did see my local General Practioner for advice and indeed understand that my options for removing the breast tissue were most likely declare myself depressed and get it via the NHS. Alternatively £10,000 for surgery which I didn’t have. Given declaring myself depressed could affect my career, I decided to proceed in other ways which I will get into below.

What I can say today at nearly 30 is: I am married, have 2 young children, a 4 bedroom house and have worked for 4 of the world’s biggest companies since 2010.

My gynecomastia no longer affects me at all. I know that because I have a close friend who asked me what my motivations for changing were 2/3 yrs back and I'd forgotten this was the real underlying driver.... until I thought very hard about it. In fact, the physical manifestations of gyno has become part of my image. I am a short out of shape balding Asian male. The fact I have “man-boobs” seamlessly blends into this persona and helps me present myself as an “unglamorous but cerebral Subject Matter Expert” in my field of consulting. After all, I’m not a glamourous consultant, so I must really know my shit to have gotten this far.

After writing in this thread, I really went and sought ways to fundamentally overcome my limitations. I had already been looking into NLP as early as 2005 (by accident mind you,) before I realised I had gyno and got much more into it once I realised I needed better ability building relationships with people due to my shy nature. I also was looking into other areas for career building like Body Language and Transactional Analysis (Negotiation Tactics) and reading books on how to emulate the mental models of people I admired like Bill Clinton.

As a by-product, I even found out about the world of Sales techniques and “PUA” – pick up art, which coaches men in the seduction arts.

I took up ballroom dancing – which gave me 2 hours with a woman every week and time to build up all sorts of unknown confidence. And I got used to going out in a T-Shirt without a compression vest.
I guess the real breakthroughs came when I began having experiences (primarily with women) which broke my “limiting beliefs” that gyno was the cause of every problem. As I wrote up there, I had been unwell, so I was also out of shape when I began experiencing greater success with women than I ever had when I was in shape. So that made me realise I had other parts of my persona to build and work on.

Make no mistake, I do still believe gyno affects how people perceive me – however I found out that other skillsets could help close down gaps and reduce barriers which really helped me overcome the issue to a point where I openly admit I have the condition.

Do I believe then that surgery is not required?

It depends on the individual.

I think I had the right personality and more importantly had already gotten and taken steps to overcome the issue which I was actively using to help me change and become a better version of myself. Including being interested in bodybuilding and building a positive feedback mentality. My so called “friends” had already ditched me whilst I was unwell and I was learning to cope as a solo person and be comfortable in that scenario.

Yet, not everyone has that mental willpower and discipline. Also, many people would struggle to be their own mentor and coach as I was. It may also mean I have genuine blind spots in my personality that are affecting me today.

Would I want to walk with my shirt off? Well I have no issues with it, but I appreciate it is not very glamourous. Given the choice (and money) – I would still opt for surgery as I think it does still come with a negative connotation to more superficial people. Heck even the rock Dwayne Johnson got his gyno removed. However it’s a much smaller issue than I used to think at 20-22. I’ve dated various women, been seen as a leader in my companies and been well rewarded.

I also think, had I never discovered NLP, Body Language etc which helped me out and made it to this point in life, my confidence would still be massively suffering and I would opt for surgery.
I do think people meet me today and don’t realise how far I had to come. How much mental resilience and strength it took to overcome these anxieties by myself. When it was never an issue for them. Perhaps that’s why I enjoy being more of “coach” today to those around me. I sympathise with the struggle of others.

As to the point of not having a counsellor – I have thought about if I lack objectivity as to how it all turned out.

I don’t travel etc, I don’t like spending time on the beach and I still can’t swim. I have wondered that had I never had gyno, my personality may be different. I would have learnt to swim and maybe I’d want to go travel and to beaches today.

Yet, I think I got what I wanted out of life and do not feel like I am missing out anymore. So ultimately I think I got it more right than wrong.

I wish you all well in your struggles.

P.S. that name i used to get called as a 10yr old: "Tornado T!ts"

Re: I feel normal and then I'm reminded
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2016, 05:15:12 am »
I also had a hell of a time in school.  However, if anybody grabbed me I learned that bashing their nose in or kicking them in the balls did the trick.  Just grabbing them by the balls and squeezing hard and twisting would have made sure they never bothered you again.  They were bullies.  Treat them like bullies and that ends the problem.  I was on the swim team with C to D cup breasts and fat.  I think many here would agree with beating the shit out of them.  Good luck.  The breasts become meaningless.  NLP and so on can make a sizable difference.  I'll be 69 in a few month, not fat and D or DD breasts.  I refused to tolerate such behaviors from bullies so they left me alone.

Offline Paa_Paw

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Re: I feel normal and then I'm reminded
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2016, 09:52:56 am »
We are not all good candidates for surgery; and some of us simply have different priorities. 
If you have become comfortable with yourself, then you have resolved the problem.  That is great. 

Re: I feel normal and then I'm reminded
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2016, 03:59:32 am »
Alchemist how were you fat when you were on the swim team?  I was 4 years varsity swim and water polo in high school and other than muscles every swimmer develops I was pretty skinny.  We had between 10 and 16 hours every week of lap time in the pool not to mention other workout time, that kept us pretty lean.  My breasts were not as big as yours, probably B’s, but they sure looked big on a skinny kid.

But Alchemist really, bashing people in the nose and kicking them in the balls, I assume you played water polo too then!  Only another water polo player will understand the joke.

I was lucky because eventually my breasts went away about the middle of sophomore year.  I also found out that other guys had weird chests too.  One of the team captains told me I had “baby titties”, that his were bigger when he was a freshman.  His advice was that I just needed to work on my pecs; especially weights and pushups.  This guy was a senior and really ripped, he still had big weird nipples but who was I to argue with him I still had boobs.  So I took his advice and worked out my arms and chest.  By the time I went to college my arms and chest looked pretty good too.  Of course the workouts had absolutely nothing to do with my breast size reducing.

Alchemist and I probably aren’t as self-conscious as most guys about the breasts.  Once you have stood in front of a bunch of people watching you at a swim meet while you are in wet Speedos it takes a lot to be embarrassed.

Re: I feel normal and then I'm reminded
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2016, 08:58:15 pm »
I never played water polo so not getting the joke. I played football.  I was attacked physically, pins stuck in my breasts, breasts grabbed, big rubber bands snapped across my back because I didn't have any bra straps to snap, shirt ripped down my back with "fairy rings" (if you are old enough to remember those).  When I was physically attacked I responded in kind.  

I had a metabolic problem (now solved) such that my weight varied between about 175 and 325 pounds.  I had the largest chest and longest arms.  When I came down from 285 after adding the right nutrients, I lost 45 pounds of water in 30 days, twice, lost 60 pounds of fat and restored 50 pounds of muscle that had atrophied.

In high school I never actually swam in a meet. I was sick out of school 1/6 to 1/3 of the school year every year.  I got sick 2 days before the first meet, got a pneumonia ( one of many), and was cleared to go in the water by my doctor a few days after the last meet.  I took up skiing for the next 3 years and later both taught skiing and was a professional ski patrolman. 

Re: I feel normal and then I'm reminded
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2016, 02:32:47 am »
The joke about water polo is that it is a contact sport where a lot of action goes on below the surface.  Most of that action has to do with kicking or kneeing your opponent’s family jewels.  Some guys would sharpen their toenails like talons or claws and try to get the inside of an opponent’s leg, especially their thighs.  I think every year our goalie had his nose broken blocking a shot.  Basically it is a rough sport for guys with a bad attitude—which at times in my teenage years I had.

Long arms and strong shoulders are a real asset for swimming, too bad you were sick so much you probably would have done well.  From my experience in high school, swim teams were a pretty rowdy group and were always hard partiers—that was the fun part you missed.  Let’s just say the Ryan Lochte and friends incident was not a surprise to me.

The comment about “baby titties” was made after they pulled me off a guy who decided to be a smartass when we were heading from the showers to our lockers; he reached around and copped a feel on my breasts.  He had made some remarks to me about my chest before so I finally just went ape shit on him; slammed him against the lockers and pounded on him.  That was really the worst incident for me.  The team captain that had the gyno problem also, said he held a guy’s head underwater that gave him shit about his chest.  Retaliation usually stops most tormentors.

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