Gynecomastia Forum, Doctor and Surgery Resources

General => Gynecomastia Talk => Topic started by: matthew1 on February 12, 2008, 05:36:54 PM

Title: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on February 12, 2008, 05:36:54 PM
update
  I started Testosterone Replacement Therapy about 2 weeks ago.  I  hired a company that knows about hormones, thats all they do. After   tons of tests,  it turns out my testosterone was  low,  estradiol was high, and free T3 was low.
    I started a regimen of testosterone cream, Arimedix tablets  to block estrogen, and T3 Capsules. Also  am taking  some great suppliments they gave me.  Super adrenal stress formula   and  EPA DHA  extra strenth.
  What  this all means is I found the  REASON for my  gyne tissue  build up via the tests. My gyne will not go away [ I   have  fatty  puffy nipples, but thet stick out and  inch], I  FEEL  much better and  through excersice I think some of this pesky belly  fat will fo away finally.
          I  can say  Bodylogicmd company has  a good  doc in VA, I went to 2 other doctors   [both endos] and they  did not even order the correct tests!
 simply testing for  testosterone level is useless,  you must get the  bigger picture   to diagnose hormone issue.
              I am 45  ,   and I feel like  i will finally  get the  body I want where I can take of my shirt in public!!!
            I am reading  a valuable book called  Adrenal Stress syndrome  by DR Wilson and I highly suggest  you all get it.
              I am no health nut, I  am a   strip steak on the grill , potato, salad with blue cheese dressing  guy but I  can tell you  knowledge on hormones and  adrenal glands  is   the key to  good  health and a fit look.
                    Please feel free to ask me any questions
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: mizuno on February 12, 2008, 09:54:30 PM
How much is this test ? And is it a nationwide company?
I'am 50/50 regarding the testing of hormones. But, I want like to know for sure.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on February 13, 2008, 12:07:19 PM
 to mizuno and c17....
         The company bodylogicmd is supposedly nationwide,  they reall just have affiliations with  doctors in spotty locations around the country. Bodylogicmd is  just the  organizer and scheduler, they have the doctosr schedules in front of them, go to bodylogicmd  to read up on them.
 costs...
            I had a battery of test done by my  primary doctor, they were covered by  my HMO insurance,  my  primary doc ordered an incomplete  battery of test and saw  no problems  with the results he got. [ he was wrong]
    I went to and endo  doc and got more tests ,  again  he saw  no issues with gyne or  hormones.
  I went to bodylogicmd, they  did   repeat tests of the other two  docs  plus additional  tests  like estradiol  and free t3 . Turns out my hormones  were way off, way to hi on estradiol  low on testosterone.
      COSTS
          The tests  and other things with bodylogicmd were 500 dollars about.  My initial  visit to the doctor was 375 . Future  visits  to monitor    hormone levels is $275  every 4 or so months. These cost are  out of pocket, HMO 's do not reimburse out of network costs.
 Meds  were covered  by insurance  less  copays. They  supliments are not covered and they are  pricey.
          Frankly, I do not  really care about the cost. I am fortunate  I can  pay for what ever I  want. I am self employed and  buy my  own insurance for me and my family at $1,100 per month. I may  switch insurances  next year to   a carrier  that lets me  go  do doctors I  want,    PPO  insurance allows that, it cost more  per month  but I will see  if it is cost  effective.
                  You must realize I quit  alcohol  and a  nicotine addiction  2 1/2 years ago [ 60 pieces of nicorette gum a day  for 11 years and  I chewed  tobacco 15 years  before that]  so the  money I save there  pays for  this hormone related  treatment.
         I am attempting to treat my  body like a temple , and the  temple needs a  remoldeling job  so that what I am doing.
         Let me  be  honest here,  I have  been  sooooo  self conscience about my puffy nipple for 30 years  that I am now  facing up to  what I need to  do. I have a beach house  and  do not take my shirt off. 
                        I am excersicing like a never have done before,  these hormones will help loose  the  stuburn belly  fat that  many off  us men get,  weight training  and  eliptycal  training are toning me  up. Once I loose some weight I  will get  nipples  worked on by dr maggassey  here in the   md / wash dc area.
              I really  feel there is light at the end of the  tunnel.  My goal is to go on my new tritoon  boat   shirtless this summer, and go swimming with my kids  in the ocean. I am sick of two  pocket  shirts.
             I  have spent over 62,000 in nicorrete  gum  over  a 11  year period!!!
  11 years at $110 per week is $62,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!! plus easily that much on  booze in the same  time period!!!!!!!
    I think it is  time to  spend money on positive  things to  help me like  gyne surgury and  and  TRT .
         I have hid my  condition way to long   time to   fix it. I went  four years of  high school sports without  showering in front of others guys!!!!   try doing that without getting  harrased .

       One more thing, I use a daily  cream form of testosterone , once  my optimal  testosterone is reached a will go with a  testosterone  seed implant  every 6 months. Now remember, excess testosterone get convert to estrogen leading to gyne,  that can be   averted  with a estrogen blocker called  Arimidex.
             
         
         T
               
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on February 14, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
AVG
   taking  testosterone in itself  without monitoring  estradiol can lead to gynecomastia and other  issues.  Also taking the cream  daily for long term is foolish,  they  make  ''seeds''  that they implant that  last 6 month and deliver estrogen  slowly and consistently
. Generally the cream is used  shorterm to   figure out what  strength  you need , in other words the creams strength can be alter at every  order untill optimal testosterone levels are reached, they implant the ''seed''
           BTW ''any  clinic''  as you stated  around here   are for folks with no insurance or money,  I go to paid specialists
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on February 25, 2008, 06:57:32 AM
I have no doubt that taking these hormone supplements and medications will prevent your gyno, but aside from the cost aren't you worried about side effects?

The estrogen blocker Arimedix has significant dangers.

And once on a regimine of external testosterone supplements you're pretty muched forced to continue it for life, or so I've heard. Since your pituitary stops sending FSH and LH out to your testicles causing them to atrophy. This is why people who take steroids get shrunken balls.
     


 I am not taking these medications to  prevent gyne, I already have pronounced puffy  nipples  that will need  surgery to correct. The gyne is  from a lifetime of lower testosterone and higher estradiol
            I am on testosterone  treatments  because my testosterone is low. I am taking these medications because my body  is not doing it on  its own in optimal levels.
     I take thyroid  medication for life  already, taking   synthetic  synthroid saves my life!  If I need additional testosterone to function optimally  then so be it. Once  proper  hormone level are figured out, I will have a testosterone  seed implanted every six months, thats easy enough.
                 As far as my speed  bag shrinking , I can tell you that  my libido is much improved with the testosterone treatment already.
             I am taking these medications out of medical neccessity , there is bound to be some side effects,  but overall it is a net gain
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: rockin813 on February 25, 2008, 01:41:27 PM
Quote
The tests  and other things with bodylogicmd were 500 dollars about.  My initial  visit to the doctor was 375 . Future  visits  to monitor    hormone levels is $275  every 4 or so months. These cost are  out of pocket, HMO 's do not reimburse out of network costs.
 Meds  were covered  by insurance  less  copays. They  supliments are not covered and they are  pricey.

WOW!  I can almost guarantee you that if you were patient and found a physician/endo who would work with you, you'd be able to get these labs drawn by them under your HMO.

How valid is this company?  Do you put a lot of faith in them cuz they told you what you wanted to hear..that ur hormones are whacked and that you'll feel better if you take 'this'.  Is their creme FDA approved?

You should join the Yahoo Group Hypogonidism2.  It's all about low T and everyone on their has their TRT regimen along with ways to fight off Estradiol (armidex, tamoxifen, DIM, etc).
I was on there for a while until i found my underlying cause of low T.  TRT made me feel like shit.

Tell them Jack Evans sent you.

GL
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on February 25, 2008, 09:14:14 PM
Quote
The tests  and other things with bodylogicmd were 500 dollars about.  My initial  visit to the doctor was 375 . Future  visits  to monitor    hormone levels is $275  every 4 or so months. These cost are  out of pocket, HMO 's do not reimburse out of network costs.
 Meds  were covered  by insurance  less  copays. They  supliments are not covered and they are  pricey.

WOW!  I can almost guarantee you that if you were patient and found a physician/endo who would work with you, you'd be able to get these labs drawn by them under your HMO.

How valid is this company?  Do you put a lot of faith in them cuz they told you what you wanted to hear..that ur hormones are whacked and that you'll feel better if you take 'this'.  Is their creme FDA approved?

You should join the Yahoo Group Hypogonidism2.  It's all about low T and everyone on their has their TRT regimen along with ways to fight off Estradiol (armidex, tamoxifen, DIM, etc).
I was on there for a while until i found my underlying cause of low T.  TRT made me feel like shit.

Tell them Jack Evans sent you.

GL
  yes the creme is approved.

 also ,  my hmo did  pay  for the tests, twice mater of fact, i  paid 500 for a third  round of test to  verify  the  first two sets. all came to the same  conclusion
  you have to be the first to feel poorly on TRT

I do take arimidex BTW

I talked to  a half dozen   endo  before I chose  this  doctor.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: rockin813 on March 03, 2008, 02:09:04 PM
Quote
The tests  and other things with bodylogicmd were 500 dollars about.  My initial  visit to the doctor was 375 . Future  visits  to monitor    hormone levels is $275  every 4 or so months. These cost are  out of pocket, HMO 's do not reimburse out of network costs.

These costs are ridiculously high...and should be covered under HMO with a Dr in your network.  I bet this Dr is not covered by any networks. 

As for me being the first to feel poorly on TRT...nope.  Go to Hypogonadism2 forum on yahoo groups.  You will get a lot of good info.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 03, 2008, 05:44:41 PM
  the cost not high IMO. HMOs do not  cover out of network doctors.
I went to   TWO network doctors and  they ordered incomplete tests   .One was an endocronologist
 Most doctors  are clueless on  how to test, read, diagnose hormone issues, even simple ones like thyroid  issues.
 The  HMO  doc  looked at testosterone level alone, that enough  is incomplete.
 My hmo pays for the meds.
          Not everyone is fortunate  like  me to have the   funds to pay for quality services,  I understand.
   Realize this,  my  hormones were not in  the optimal ranges [ actually  far from  them], and I intend on correcting this  problem.
         My  hugely puffy  nipples were a direct result from my estradiol level  and my testosterone level,
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: ThatMethD1guy on March 04, 2008, 12:35:34 AM
I am also on HRT for a couple of months now. I was anemic and had some T scores in the low range, but this was all after a while on propecia. It is worth noting that A conventional endro thought my scores were acceptable and that the anemia could be cured with an iron supplement (point being that if the hormone doctor indicates that scores are low, this is based on their bias i think as well as the traditional endros being biased the other way)

I am trying to remain objective, but gave the HRT a shot because I was also tired and miserable as well as other things.

I am on allot of hormones now  and do feel better but, its tough to know which thing is the operative thing .....or is it simply stopping propecia that has helped? I don't know. I am not on any estrogen blocker, nor do have fantasies about any of this reversing the gyno (i will get surgery for that I guess)

I am on testostorine cream, hcg, hgh, adrenal supplimnnet, DHEA thyroid, cortisol, and chelating for mercury with dsmg

There seems to be allot  of disagreement out there about this controversial area of medicine and it is all QUITE expensive ($800 for my first batch of stuff and $1700 for the second batch...insurance covers some of the doctors fess, all of the lab work, some of the hormones, none of the supplements.

Anyone with any specific info about all of this? I see alot of general statements regarding negative possibilites but nothing concrete as i do google seaches.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: Paa_Paw on March 04, 2008, 02:12:38 AM
The point of all this is to point out the simple fact that the hormones do not play solo parts but they perform in a concert with all the other hormones.

The other fact which has been hinted at but not stated directly is that not all Endocrinologists are equally qualified to analize your condition.  Some endocrinologists specialize in Diabetes for example. Another may specialize in liver function.

It has been well stated that extensive laboratory work is sometimes required and that the follow up must be equally comprehensive.

Adjusting the dosages of hormones which can have dramatic effects upon your reproductive physiology in definately not a do-it-yourself job.

Thanks to matthew1 for his well written post.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 05, 2008, 08:02:50 PM
paapaw  thanks  for the props on my writing,   it usually   is awful ;)

methguy,  go here to learn about  about  HRT  http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81

It  is  confusing as hell,  but so far it works for me. Some guys  say  supplement are crap, I  believe they  work.

 I will  compare  adrenal stress  supplements if you want.

  I am on  thyroid treatment  for 30 years with no complications,   I see no reason these hormone will. be any different.
  Some say  our doo dads[ testicles]  will shrink from the meds,  I  will take that risks,   they are  bigs enough now wife  uses em as a  speed bag anyway ;D

        This is  the way I look at it, I am doing the TRT  because it is needed , a medical necessity,   not like others in the bodybuilding forums discussions.

   I can say this without a  doubt,  my lifelong battle  with depression is gone  since  a few weeks after I started on these  meds, that alone is worth any side effects.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: rockin813 on March 05, 2008, 08:38:56 PM
anyone else find it odd that the only drs that know hormones and treat low T scores are the ones that are out of network and ur req'd to pay for the labs/consults urself? 

regardless, did this dr find out why your T levels are low?  there are number of reasons that T can be too low.  would be beneficial in finding out the cause before treating.  i've read several posts stating that TRT initially gave them an initial high only to bring them back to original lows and sometimes worse.  did u go to the yahoo group i mentioned?

meth1guy...u need  to get on propeciahelp.com .  a forum full of propecia/proscar (fin) users that have yet to recover from finasteride.  low T, adrenal concerns, etc.  u would be beneficial to them as they will be to you.  tell them jack evans sent you.

good luck
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: nasa3 on March 06, 2008, 10:05:03 AM
thatmethguy, could you elaborate on the medication you are taking for mercury toxicity, i.e. what is it, how do you get it, and why do you think you have a mercury problem, and what were the symptoms?

thanks and God Bless

nasa
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 06, 2008, 03:20:59 PM
anyone else find it odd that the only drs that know hormones and treat low T scores are the ones that are out of network and ur req'd to pay for the labs/consults urself? 

regardless, did this dr find out why your T levels are low?  there are number of reasons that T can be too low.  would be beneficial in finding out the cause before treating.  i've read several posts stating that TRT initially gave them an initial high only to bring them back to original lows and sometimes worse.  did u go to the yahoo group i mentioned?

meth1guy...u need  to get on propeciahelp.com .  a forum full of propecia/proscar (fin) users that have yet to recover from finasteride.  low T, adrenal concerns, etc.  u would be beneficial to them as they will be to you.  tell them jack evans sent you.

good luck

 Rockin, yes I  go to the   http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81 I go to this site daily, if thats the one you mean


 Why do you  think all these  HRT docs are out of network?  my GUESS is they  are specialist, they know there is a demand, and  make more money  net being part of the  insurance system.

 
         Listen,  my thyroid has been  underactive   for 30 years, no doctor  ever  looked  for the reason there. I just assumed  my  thyroid was  simply not working correctly , a defect that good not be corrected on its own
     I assume my  test and cortisal levels are whacked  because thats just the way I am built/ programed
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on March 06, 2008, 03:30:44 PM
I believe Matthew1 is doing the right thing here. It would be nice to know the reason T is low, but finding that reason doesn't mean its fixable. (Like the thyroid) Odds are he would need TRT anyway.

Matthew, I appreciate all your updates on this site. Your taking the time to update guys on your progress will be helpful to us all. 

 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: rockin813 on March 06, 2008, 03:59:39 PM
  Rockin, yes I  go to the   http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81 I go to this site daily, if thats the one you mean


 Why do you  think all these  HRT docs are out of network?  my GUESS is they  are specialist, they know there is a demand, and  make more money  net being part of the  insurance system.

 
         Listen,  my thyroid has been  underactive   for 30 years, no doctor  ever  looked  for the reason there. I just assumed  my  thyroid was  simply not working correctly , a defect that good not be corrected on its own
     I assume my  test and cortisal levels are whacked  because thats just the way I am built/ programed

that's a bodybuilding forum that im on also.  im sure u see a lot of posts from pmgamer on there. ask him about the yahoo forum...he'll tell u about it.

as for TRT...i hope it continues to beneifit u.  i just know it can be a roller coaster trying to balance E2 and T.  arimidex too much and ur screwed as too low E2 is as bad as too high with regards to libido.

i wish u continued success.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: ThatMethD1guy on March 08, 2008, 11:11:00 PM
matthew1,

I think you and I corresponded just before either of us jumped in with both feet on the HRT. I also seem to have more energy and less depression but I am reserving judgment..... as I also know the placebo effect IS REAL. I have lost weight and gotten more defined since HRT (allthough this  was not a primary objective).

I originally suspected my symptoms were associated with an over the counter prohormone i took (meth1d) and then eventually came to understand that the propecia i was on was much much more suspicious. I stopped propecia around the same time as HRT so now I cant be sure as to wheather the positive changes are form the HFT or from stopping propecia.

I cant really find any horror storied associated with HRT (other that the testicle atrophy thing) which supposedly can be mitigated with HCG (which i am also on)

I will keep you posted
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: ThatMethD1guy on March 08, 2008, 11:19:57 PM
regarding mercury:

...the HRT doctor saw a high mercury marker in my blood so i am also chelating with DSMG (in addition to all that other stuff i am swallowing, injecting, drinking and rubbing into my skin)

I should also point out the opposing point of view for heavy metal testing: which is that traditional doctors say it is impossible to test blood.hair/urine for mercury, and that all this stuff is nonsense.

In my case I was so tired and depressed I had NOTHING TO LOSE so I am subjecting myself to a pretty comprehensive compliment of hormones and other elixirs.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 09, 2008, 11:35:36 AM
methguy

  I agree,  with depression and feeling poorly  you get to  the point where you will try anything.
        I think  my  very low testosterone  level,  my  high estrodiol levels  .   my cortisol score, low t3,  caused my depression  all along.
         Freaking anti depression  meds are  MUCH MUCH MUCH  worse then  HRT  is for me.
        AD meds nearly impossible to get off of, I joined another  website just to learn how to  taper of them,  freaking  physc. dosc are  clueless on the real effects of AD meds.
         I started HRT out of a medical neccessity,  not to improve  my results in the gym.
        I can say   depression is lifting  for the first time  in 30 years ,  I am  getting  a little gain in the gym too.
            To early to tell what the end result  will be   but I am  optimistic, or should I say   very positive that I am on the right course.
       WE MUST BE OUR ON ADVOCATE  AND ASK  DOCTOR THE RIGHT QUESTIONS, if  you do not look after yourself no one will.
         Working out has help a lot also.
  I will keep posting my  updates as time goes by
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on March 10, 2008, 11:10:37 AM
Hey guys,

Matthew's testimony supports that male hormonal balance can have alot to do with mood and how you feel. Its not just a gynecomastia issue. When hormones are out of balance it effects everything, including our relationships.

It is my opinion, that too many physicians are too quick to prescribe an AD drug to treat the symptoms, and do not even look for the underlying problem. This is fueled in part by the tremendous marketing drive of the giant drug companies to sell anti-depressants.

During Matthews previous doctor visits, A sharp physician would have observed the gynecomastia and run the correct labs including testosterone and Estradiol. The resulting 4/1 T/E2 ratio would have then explained the gyno and matthew's other symptoms. But that didn't happen.

Matthew changed his lifestyle. He sought out a physician who is adressing his hormones. A physician who understands the importance of controlling estrogen with TRT as well as Thyroid T4/ T3 balance.

Matthew took control of the situation. Way to go Matt! I am in your cheering section and looking forward to your updates. This is gonna be very interesting.

   
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 10, 2008, 06:14:14 PM
 thank you skyhawk....

  I was introduced to this site  below  from some one online here
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81

  there  is tons of info  on HRT therapy. Frankly all the  information is a bit overwhelming and I can  not grasp it all . So, I put a   ad on  craigslists  to hire someone to gather and decipher   the info. I am interviewing the  MANY respondents  i  recieved.




 here is the ad
knowledge in hormone treatment
Reply to: job-599777315@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-03-08, 2:54PM EST


I am looking for someone that can understand my blood work results and explain them to me. My  doctors are busy to answer all my questions
Specifically, my doc has me on hormone replacement therapy . I belong to a website where I get different information about what treatment I should get.
I want someone that explain to me information I forward to them related to hormones
Also
a] I have blood results from test
b] I am on hormones to help correct blood test results
c] I get conflicting reports from knowledgeable people that suggest a different courses of action

I need someone that understands, testosterone, cortisol, t3 , t4, estradiol, thyroid issues to a point to where they can explain some things to me. I have doctors but they do not have time to explain , nor do they want to hear info from a website
I am not looking for medical advice, just some one with excellent knowledge on hormone issues that can put things in simpler terms.
I will pay good cash for your time. I have resources to pay whats needed, just need a good answer person that can field my questions

contact usermatt9628@aol.com I am a 44 year old male
   
   


 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 11, 2008, 08:45:01 PM
  freaking nips


  finished a decent work out in my basement, nothing tremendous  mind you,   but  some good  curls and  benc press and sit ups. While  doing   curls, I glance in the mirro and  see   some definition in my arms, I am thinking, wow I actually got a nice  bicep. My nips are  hard fromall the  working out, got a sleevless shirt, I am think ing  with surgery ,  keep working out, maybe I can take my shirt off this summer.
  I go sit down in a chair, freaking  nips  relax and stick out  luck 1/2 golf balls under my shirt. Look like a  12 years old  girl chest when they start to develop.
       I  get  upset and bummed and say forget this  new  booze, nicotine free lifestyle, stop working out,  hide out under clothes  for the next 20 years it just aint worth.

     thanks for listening ,  I am done crying :'( :'(
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on March 12, 2008, 09:54:03 AM
Any accomplishment worth while will push a person to their limits. Keep your eyes focused on the finish line. Don't give up. The gyno can and will be corrected with surgery. You can do it man.

Focus on stage one. (Getting your hormones in balance) Then stage two  (surgery) is not far down the road.

It would be pointless to have done surgery with a 4 to 1 T/E2 ratio. I would bet money the gyno would have come come back.

Your doing the right thing. Stay the course my Friend.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on March 12, 2008, 01:29:03 PM
There are other ways to lower Estradiol than just arimidex. DIM, zinc, reducing body fat, eliminating exposure to chemicles that mimic estrogens.

When estrogen goes down, testosterone goes up. Some guys are able to increase their testosterone just by controlling estrogen through the things I mentioned above.

Some guys may do a combination. Like 1/4 pill Arimidex every 3 days, plus DIM and Zinc. Gotta do what works best for each individual.

Of course thyroid hormone also has an impact on steroid sex hormones. The only thing I am curious about, is if Matthew's doctor addressed the low T3 first, then waited to see if there was an improvement in the other numbers, would his testosterone/estradiol ratio improved? I can't say for sure. 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: rockin813 on March 12, 2008, 04:13:53 PM
thank you skyhawk....

  I was introduced to this site  below  from some one online here
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81

  there  is tons of info  on HRT therapy. Frankly all the  information is a bit overwhelming and I can  not grasp it all . So, I put a   ad on  craigslists  to hire someone to gather and decipher   the info. I am interviewing the  MANY respondents  i  recieved.




 here is the ad
knowledge in hormone treatment
Reply to: job-599777315@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-03-08, 2:54PM EST


I am looking for someone that can understand my blood work results and explain them to me. My  doctors are busy to answer all my questions
Specifically, my doc has me on hormone replacement therapy . I belong to a website where I get different information about what treatment I should get.
I want someone that explain to me information I forward to them related to hormones
Also
a] I have blood results from test
b] I am on hormones to help correct blood test results
c] I get conflicting reports from knowledgeable people that suggest a different courses of action

I need someone that understands, testosterone, cortisol, t3 , t4, estradiol, thyroid issues to a point to where they can explain some things to me. I have doctors but they do not have time to explain , nor do they want to hear info from a website
I am not looking for medical advice, just some one with excellent knowledge on hormone issues that can put things in simpler terms.
I will pay good cash for your time. I have resources to pay whats needed, just need a good answer person that can field my questions

contact usermatt9628@aol.com I am a 44 year old male
   
   


 

so wait....ur getting treatment for your hormones using prescription type medication, yet you have no confidence in what they are telling you (or they are not telling you enough yet you still take the meds) that you are looking to craig's list for somone who will explain it all to you. 

your original post talked so highly of this lab and Dr.  now you are resorting to craig's list?  what happened??????
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: Grandpa Bambu on March 12, 2008, 04:25:56 PM
I  have spent over 62,000 in nicorrete  gum  over  a 11  year period!!! 11 years at $110 per week is $62,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to hijack the thread but....  Isn't Nicorette supposed to be a 'temproary' aid for smoking cessation? 

Eleven years...???


GB
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 12, 2008, 06:20:24 PM
I  have spent over 62,000 in nicorrete  gum  over  a 11  year period!!! 11 years at $110 per week is $62,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to hijack the thread but....  Isn't Nicorette supposed to be a 'temproary' aid for smoking cessation? 

Eleven years...???


 Nicotine is very addictive. I  had no urgency to  stop the  nic gum, it is not cancerous  like the chew I was doing . Nic  gum is supposed to be a 12 week  program, NOT.... Lots of  folks are addicted to the gum , lozenges , inhaler etc..

GB

Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 12, 2008, 06:25:14 PM
thank you skyhawk....

  I was introduced to this site  below  from some one online here
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81

  there  is tons of info  on HRT therapy. Frankly all the  information is a bit overwhelming and I can  not grasp it all . So, I put a   ad on  craigslists  to hire someone to gather and decipher   the info. I am interviewing the  MANY respondents  i  recieved.




 here is the ad
knowledge in hormone treatment
Reply to: job-599777315@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-03-08, 2:54PM EST


I am looking for someone that can understand my blood work results and explain them to me. My  doctors are busy to answer all my questions
Specifically, my doc has me on hormone replacement therapy . I belong to a website where I get different information about what treatment I should get.
I want someone that explain to me information I forward to them related to hormones
Also
a] I have blood results from test
b] I am on hormones to help correct blood test results
c] I get conflicting reports from knowledgeable people that suggest a different courses of action

I need someone that understands, testosterone, cortisol, t3 , t4, estradiol, thyroid issues to a point to where they can explain some things to me. I have doctors but they do not have time to explain , nor do they want to hear info from a website
I am not looking for medical advice, just some one with excellent knowledge on hormone issues that can put things in simpler terms.
I will pay good cash for your time. I have resources to pay whats needed, just need a good answer person that can field my questions

contact usermatt9628@aol.com I am a 44 year old male
   
   


 

so wait....ur getting treatment for your hormones using prescription type medication, yet you have no confidence in what they are telling you (or they are not telling you enough yet you still take the meds) that you are looking to craig's list for somone who will explain it all to you. 

your original post talked so highly of this lab and Dr.  now you are resorting to craig's list?  what happened??????


 I think the lab and doctor are good. But  I  need to decide  the  questions I want to  ask the doctor. The more I read here the more confused I get.   
   I am not sure the  exact  wording of  my question to the doctor.   For instance ARMOIR thyroid, vs  synthroid,   t4. t3  what the  hell is all that about/?  I thought T3 was a  terminator  movie.
         I need   some knowledge on the basics, I  cant  expect the doc to explain everything. I  am   going to hire  someone I can call whenever I want, i  addition to   my doctors
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 12, 2008, 06:26:31 PM
Funny you mention depression skyhawk. In addition to being caused by low testosterone, it's also a known side effect of the estrogen blocking medication. The very one Matthew is taking in fact.

When it comes to trying to correct this kind of hormone problem you're either d@mned if you do and d@mned if you don't. The only difference is, if you go for the "d@amned if you do" option you'll have to spend a lot more money.


QUOTE  ''Funny you mention depression skyhawk. In addition to being caused by low testosterone, it's also a known side effect of the estrogen blocking medication. The very one Matthew is taking in fact.''
 
Crap, thats the first I heard of this.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 12, 2008, 06:28:23 PM
There are other ways to lower Estradiol than just arimidex. DIM, zinc, reducing body fat, eliminating exposure to chemicles that mimic estrogens.

When estrogen goes down, testosterone goes up. Some guys are able to increase their testosterone just by controlling estrogen through the things I mentioned above.

Some guys may do a combination. Like 1/4 pill Arimidex every 3 days, plus DIM and Zinc. Gotta do what works best for each individual.

Of course thyroid hormone also has an impact on steroid sex hormones. The only thing I am curious about, is if Matthew's doctor addressed the low T3 first, then waited to see if there was an improvement in the other numbers, would his testosterone/estradiol ratio improved? I can't say for sure. 

 I am  taking T3 treatment  everyday , with the  testost cream , and arimidex  2x a week
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 12, 2008, 06:29:36 PM
Any accomplishment worth while will push a person to their limits. Keep your eyes focused on the finish line. Don't give up. The gyno can and will be corrected with surgery. You can do it man.

Focus on stage one. (Getting your hormones in balance) Then stage two  (surgery) is not far down the road.

It would be pointless to have done surgery with a 4 to 1 T/E2 ratio. I would bet money the gyno would have come come back.

Your doing the right thing. Stay the course my Friend.


 I appreciate you     good advice and kind words
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on March 12, 2008, 10:52:09 PM
Matthew, Although I am not in the medical profession, I am hypothyroid, and have studied thyroid in depth for several years. I would be happy to explain thyroid basics in very simple terms.

I will send you an email with the information you are seeking, along with my phone number, and you may call me anytime you have a thyroid question.

I know this sounds crazy, but human biology and health studies is my hobby. I could teach a class on thyroid basics and diagnosis.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 20, 2008, 04:54:08 PM
 I STOPPED HRT


I had to stop HRT  5 days ago. I had  horrible, nearly hospitalized depression. Suicidal idealizations, constant crying.. ! I have depression issues that  were at bey with meds and exercise ,   but after 5 weeks on T3 , TEST CREAM, AND ARIMIDEX  i went down hill quick. I felt depression sneaking back  a week or so ago, got  unbearable. Was having hot flashes waking me  up, once up  depression took over scary.
         My doctors and I   put the  depression  on the arimidex,  turns out  depression,  burning hot  flashes and  prickly skin sensation  are  possible side effect. It just happen to effect we very  badly. 5 days off all HRT,  starting to improve, may be another week till  I recover.
                   I was making good  progress  physically   with the HRT.
   My  primary  doc  , [ he was unaware Ihired another doc for HRT]  said we  will and would  have put me on  test cream ,no problem. I dont think he is  up to  speed on  gyne though.
           Depression   suck  the life  out of people. Tha AD meds are  no answer really.
   thanks for reading  Matt
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 21, 2008, 07:34:49 PM
 I am returning to normal mental state  after stopping HRT  [ arimidex] 6 days ago.
  It was  h....llish, 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on March 21, 2008, 11:13:08 PM
Wow, I had no idea that Arimidex could do that. What about other methods of controlling estrogen such as DIM and Zinc?

Are you absolutely sure it was the arimidex? How do you know that it wasn't an overdose of T3? I overdosed on T3 and fell down crying for no reason. It was really spooky. Stopping the thyroid meds gave me recovery.

The hot flashes waking you up in the night could also be hyperthyroidism from over ingestion of T3.  It can happen fast. Thyrotoxic attacks tend to strike in the night while sleeping. I've been ther, done that.

I'm not saying this was thyrotoxicosis, but couldn't help but notice it in your description.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on March 21, 2008, 11:24:10 PM
I just googled Arimidex side effects and was stunned by the reports from women using this drug for breast cancer. I hate to admit it, but I had no idea about these side effects. Yep, Hot flashes, night sweats, tingling, joint aches, feeling old. Its all there. 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 22, 2008, 07:33:26 AM
hi skyhawk, I know it was not thyroid t3 because I did a full  blood work up during  all this and thyroid numbers were fine.
        Question is I want to start thr test treatment ,  but how to proceed without arimidex 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on March 22, 2008, 09:39:41 AM
Matthew, I did some more research on DIM side effects last night. So far, I have not found any mention of bad side effects. Only talk about its safety up against other methods of controlling estrogen. I am continuing to take a hard look at DIM. Its the chemicals derived from cruciferious vegetables. You get DIM when you eat these vegetables.

SUGGESTION:  Now that your "back to the drawing board" you might want to take this approach-

1)  Tackle the thyroid issue first, since thyroid hormone has an impact on other steroid hormones, this could improve your other steroid labs. Remember, every cell and organ in your body has thyroid hormone receptors. It appears you have done step #1. 

2) Lower Estradiol without Arimidex. Try DIM, Zinc, and reduction of body fat. When Estrogen falls, testosterone rises, and you may find that supplemental testosterone was never needed.

3) After reducing Estradiol, if T levels are still too low you have the option of adding Testosterone, but it may not be neccesary if step #1 and #2 worked.

See my point?  Tackle the problem in step by step stages doing only what is needed. Its a conservative approach.

Looking back, I think your physician may have dropped cluster bombs on the hormonal problem, and you got collateral damage.

 

Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 23, 2008, 10:43:19 AM
Matthew, I did some more research on DIM side effects last night. So far, I have not found any mention of bad side effects. Only talk about its safety up against other methods of controlling estrogen. I am continuing to take a hard look at DIM. Its the chemicals derived from cruciferious vegetables. You get DIM when you eat these vegetables.

SUGGESTION:  Now that your "back to the drawing board" you might want to take this approach-

1)  Tackle the thyroid issue first, since thyroid hormone has an impact on other steroid hormones, this could improve your other steroid labs. Remember, every cell and organ in your body has thyroid hormone receptors. It appears you have done step #1. 

2) Lower Estradiol without Arimidex. Try DIM, Zinc, and reduction of body fat. When Estrogen falls, testosterone rises, and you may find that supplemental testosterone was never needed.

3) After reducing Estradiol, if T levels are still too low you have the option of adding Testosterone, but it may not be neccesary if step #1 and #2 worked.

See my point?  Tackle the problem in step by step stages doing only what is needed. Its a conservative approach.

Looking back, I think your physician may have dropped cluster bombs on the hormonal problem, and you got collateral damage.

 


Matthew, I did some more research on DIM side effects last night. So far, I have not found any mention of bad side effects. Only talk about its safety up against other methods of controlling estrogen. I am continuing to take a hard look at DIM. Its the chemicals derived from cruciferious vegetables. You get DIM when you eat these vegetables.

SUGGESTION:  Now that your "back to the drawing board" you might want to take this approach-

1)  Tackle the thyroid issue first, since thyroid hormone has an impact on other steroid hormones, this could improve your other steroid labs. Remember, every cell and organ in your body has thyroid hormone receptors. It appears you have done step #1.

 my  thyroid is reasonably  controlled  with the  synthroid I am taking, seems  about in the normal range. My T3 was a bit low and I was taking T3 as part of my HRT. Are you saying take the T3  without the test cream and arimidex to see if  that works at lowering  body fat  and thus raising test?

2) Lower Estradiol without Arimidex. Try DIM, Zinc, and reduction of body fat. When Estrogen falls, testosterone rises, and you may find that supplemental testosterone was never needed.

answer
     I have been working out  hard, I t is nearly impossible to rid my self of much body  fat with a  tesosterone / estadiol  ratio of  4/1 . Its like I need  the test cream to help loose the  fat


3) After reducing Estradiol, if T levels are still too low you have the option of adding Testosterone, but it may not be neccesary if step #1 and #2 worked.
  I do   I lower estadiol? mine is  high. Arimidex is a death sentence for me

See my point?  Tackle the problem in step by step stages doing only what is needed. Its a conservative approach.

Looking back, I think your physician may have dropped cluster bombs on the hormonal problem, and you got collateral damage.

    BIgger  question,  I want to  start back on the testosterone  cream , but I am afraid it will make  puffy nipples  even worse. I plan on getting gyne surgery soon, but am worried about  hormone issues.
       I feel if  enough  gland is remove maybe future post op   gyne may  not be an issue while on the  testosterone cream?
  it a  vicious circle  your input is welcome
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on March 23, 2008, 09:21:48 PM
It is possible for gyne to return after surgery, and more likely to return if you take Testosterone. I am making this statement based upon the experience of others on this site.

I understand that it is difficult if not impossible to lower body fat with a 4/1 T/e2 ratio. But you can do the things I mentioned to lower Estradiol and its over the counter and cheap.

Matthew, Testosterone and Estrogen compete for the same sites to bind to. Therefore if you lower estradiol, this clears the path for the testosterone your body already has to latch on and do its job. Plus, T levels should increase as well

I remember your lab numbers Matthew. It was the Estradiol that was really high. The testosterone wasn't that bad. I really believe that if you lower your E2 levels first thru alternate means, you could see some real benefits.

You have nothing to lose, except Estradiol!!

1) purchase some DIM from the health food store.
2) purchase Zinc gluconate.( 50 MG pills)
3) Purchase copper ( 2 milligram pills)
4) Purchase cruciferious vegtables from the grocery store. Get some shredded cabbage (cole slaw) in the bag. Broccoli, and Brussel sprouts.

If your interested in this I'll post further instructions. Stay with me my friend. Stay with me on this.


   
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 25, 2008, 02:03:11 PM
 what is  dim?

 yes I am interested  in want  you have to say, please continue

    so  you think lowering estradiol naturally  with over the counter stuff works? hmmm

    I am wondering if it is prudent to stay with the testosterone cream   in the meantime?
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 26, 2008, 06:51:54 PM
As  you may recall, I had  bad  outbreak  of depression and  pins and  needles/ hot flashes  while on arimidex, so I  stopped  HRT all together  after 5 or 6 weeks. I am  feeling better one week off Arimidex.
            My blood results  came in today, the 6 week of  HRT raised my  Testosterone  from 350 to 460. My  cortisol  has improved. He did  not  test estodiol that was high  pre HRT.
           I am considering  going on testosterone cream again,  I am not sure whether to resume the T3 or not.
           I have had  gyne already [ puffy nipples] now my concern is should I worry   about  worse  gyne if I start back on the  testOsterone  cream?

                   I want to get gyne surgery for the  puffy nips I  have lived with for 30 years but I dont think  a  doc will  work on my chest  while on  testosterone cream
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on March 27, 2008, 09:55:54 AM
Matthew,

A decision to continue with the T3 thyroid hormone woulsd be determined by lab tests. If you have low circulating levels of T3 in the presense of a normal TSH, then I think T3 is justified.

DIM is found in cruciferious veggies and is attributed to reducing estrogen dependent cancers in certain women. This is why some women with breast cancer experience a reduction in tumors when consuming these vegetables. However not all who try this find success. DIM lowers Estogens in the body. Its inexpensive, and is available from the health food store.

Zinc is a natural aramotase inhibitor. Studies have shown that zinc supplementation increases testosterone levels. care should be taken so as not to take too much zinc. A responsible zinc supplementation program could help you.

Anytime you take testosterone, the risk of increeasing gyno is there. So I would start without the Testosterone, concentrate on getting your E2 levels down thru DIM and zinc plus a well balanced diet and exercise, then recheck your labs. See how you feel physicaly, and then make a decision if you want to add testosterone. You may not need the Testosterone cream after all is said and done. 

   



 



Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on March 29, 2008, 08:14:50 PM
 feeling better [ depression  substantially  lifted] after  a week and a half off arimidex   AND T3.  Started  back on testosterone cream 2 days ago.
         Latest  blodd test shows cream help w/ testosterone . Estrodiol  still high.
 Meeting with  HRT in a  couple weeks to see what next move  should be .
             
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on April 04, 2008, 07:40:06 PM
depression lifted,  still taking testosterone cream,  still off the  arimidex due to the severe depression and  hot flashes. I am reading that 1mg tabs  was way too high a dose. I need to lower my estrodiol,  its in the 80's , way to high. Meeting  with doc in a couple weeks.  Scared to  try Arimidex at lower levels  but have too  to keep my puffy nipples from getting  worse. Still  not taking the T3 either.
    Muscle [ arms and chest getting bigger ]as I work out
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on April 04, 2008, 10:34:08 PM
I can understand why you would hesitate to take arimidex at all after your experience. Thanks for keeping us posted. I am curious what your doctor will offer as an alternative to the arimidex. I know of guy who takes 1/4 pill of arimidex twice a week, plus he does zinc and DIM.
Another guy getting TRT only uses DIM for estradiol and reports no problem with gyno.   
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on April 12, 2008, 09:16:42 PM
OK ,  I have  been  a few weeks on the  testosterone cream  WITHOUT taking the  T3 OR ARIMIDEX.  I was on 8x the normal does of Arimidex. I must ask doc why she did that That sent me into major depression.[ lower   E2 i think]

  Anyway,  in the  last  several weeks I have  felt better emotionally and physically   since I was  a young teen.
               I  LOOK FORWARD to working out with weights, I graduated  from my basement gym  now go to the YMCA. My  doc   doubled the strenth of my  testosterone cream  when I said I was  making  minimal progress. I have not started on the increased dose/strenth of cream yet. It on my desk
           Arms and chest are getting  beefy , strenth is wayy up. Spring out of bed in the morning.
  Tapering off the  anti depressants slowly, they  where a freaking mistake from the beginning. My  hormones caused  my depression IMO, freaking   psych doc  never  checked them.
          My only issue now  is my   puffy nipples. Meeting with   gyne doc  Magassy in VA on  wed . I am afraid  doc wont  work on me while I am on HRT .

  SO  guys,  check your hormones , if they  were fouled up  like mine, get the  help you need.
          I would post pictures  , but some guy broke into my truck and wiped me out of  my  GPS , camera, etc etc.
                   I am 6'7'' and  290,  down from  300. I am getting some definition in my  body and getting  some  stares at the  gym  nowadays;D ,   nipples  stay tight during lifting but as  soon as I stop  out they pop out  :'(
         So I feel  VERY GOOD now, lets hope  I stay this way.
I am  doing  saliva and blood spot  test today and mailing them off  to the  lab. results go to my  doctor, then we will decide what course of action  to take next.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on April 12, 2008, 10:29:30 PM
Great update Matt. Glad to hear you are feeling better. I have heard many stories just like yours where a physician prescribes anti-depressents and never checks the patients hormone profile.

This is not to bash physicians, but I do think its one thing that needs fixing in our medical system. Its easy to prescribe prozac and send a patient down the road.

But God bless the physician that goes the extra mile and looks for the reason for the depression and gyne. May God bless the physician who runs COMPLETE thyroid panels including free T3. And may God Bless the physician that runs sex hormones and all related labs. And last but not least, God Bless the physician who is his own man and isn't influenced by big Pharma marketing.



 
 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on April 15, 2008, 03:17:48 PM
 There is  something  desperately  wrong, in the last 48 hours in a  horrible depression again. Horrible thoughts. I  am one the testosterone  cream only this time, I have felt better in the  previous two weeks then I have in decades, now  I do not want to continue, I am hurting.
       i AM STOPPINg  testosterone alltogether       again
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on April 16, 2008, 12:19:15 PM
Matt, notify your doctor. The only thing that jumps into my mind is that possibly your Estrogens skyrocketed from the conversion of T to E. The reason I say this is because you were doing better initially, then you crash after so many weeks of Testosterone therapy. This time there was no Arimidex or T3 in the equation. It was all Testosterone, and the hormones that follow Testosterone in biological progression.

Again, my impression of your labs was that Testosterone was slightly low. And that Estradiol was extremely high. I honestly believe, from my veiwpoint, that your real problem is not testosterone deficiency, but rather estrogen dominance. This is why I encourage you to consider addresssing the high E2 levels. If you can get E2 down naturally, Testosterone will go up. Remember the Teetet -Totter illustration? 

Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: jackanonymous on April 16, 2008, 04:33:17 PM
Why don't you just have surgery?
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on April 17, 2008, 04:15:40 PM
 feeling better today,  at another site that deals with  depression ,  someone said   the  uptick in  caffeine and sugar consumption  could have triggered this depression episode. I have drank alot of dr pepper diet soda and a  bunch of icecream , that could have set me off.
        Scary, wanted to vaporize myself  one day and 40 later feeling much better.
 I do not think a day or two off the HRT testosterone cream  would have worked that fast
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: rockin813 on May 15, 2008, 09:28:58 AM
feeling better today,  at another site that deals with  depression ,  someone said   the  uptick in  caffeine and sugar consumption  could have triggered this depression episode. I have drank alot of dr pepper diet soda and a  bunch of icecream , that could have set me off.
        Scary, wanted to vaporize myself  one day and 40 later feeling much better.
 I do not think a day or two off the HRT testosterone cream  would have worked that fast

wow..you are all over the place.  hopefully you'll get this sorted out with your online dr community.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: rockin813 on May 15, 2008, 09:32:17 AM
   I can say this without a  doubt,  my lifelong battle  with depression is gone  since  a few weeks after I started on these  meds, that alone is worth any side effects.


so i guess you want to retract this statement?
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on May 18, 2008, 11:02:27 AM
no I do not want to retract statement, something went wrong with  my HRT, we ran another test and my Progesterone level was 547,  it should be  15- 80, I am like  7 times over the high end of the range.
               I have two endo running running about 25 blood test at two labs at one time.
           I will get to the bottom of this.
  I had drop  my AD meds dosage    to fast during this because I was feeling so much better, that was not a good ideal.
       Not taking any  hormones  now to get a new baseline  for latest blood test. I  think pharmacy gave me wrong  cream last time, thats why I had 547 progesterone,  both docs  said they NEVER seen this in a man EVER. I think  pharmacy gave me wrong  cream.
             Next time around  I will be  using an alcohol based testos cream.
 Goin to endo #2 office this coming friday for  blood test results.
  Feeling sluggish
h since I stopped the testosterone cream,
 That Arimedex 1 mg  2x a week was a wrong thing to do also

 I wil report back on Friday to post blood results after being 4 weeks off  HRT
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on May 27, 2008, 05:45:12 PM
    I have  had a resurgence of severe depression,   the AD meds  have pooped out. I am in poor shape at the moment.
              I have not  done any  HRT for a 6 weeks  or more after  I crashed,   the  bodylogicmd doctor had me on T3, arimedex and  testosterone cream, . The  t3  amount of 3o mcg was  to much,  she knew I was  taking  225 mcg  for synthroid for  hypothyroid,  so  when I introduced that much t3 without cutting back on the synthroid  it made for a problem possibly.
  Also the  1mg of arimidex 2x a week was a  little much I gather.
   I   hired another endocrinologists  and  he suggested stopping all hrt, then retesting my  hormones to get a baseline to see where I stand. I got the results  today

 testosterone  serum  total 305     range 400 to 1200
free testosterone  1.6  range 1.5 to 3.2
free testosterone s   49  range   52  to280
prolactin  7.8  range  3-18
estrodiol  .61  range .8 to 3.5
 
Wierd about estrodiol,  it used to be way  way high

thyroid
t4 free  1,27   range .61-1.76
fsh  3.2   range  1.4-18.1
tsh 1.161  range  .350 to 5.5
t3  104 range  85-205

 I am hoping to start on a alcohol based testosterone cream,  doc seems  kind of  reluctant, but these numbers are not very good and should support  the cream


  I got a b 12 shot today and will do that regularly
  hoping the testosterone  cream  will help with the depression
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on May 31, 2008, 07:47:17 PM
 ok feeling better


   the endo doc  wants a  test done on my  pituitary  glnd now. He has started me on adrogel testosterone  cream,   and 5 mcg of T3   thyroid hormone , and cut back my synthroid from 225mcg to 200.
    With my  testosterone at 305  and the range  being 400 -1200 he calls me borderline low!
           some folks at the  weight lifting  sites say  the  cream and gels suck, that  my levels will never go above  500 or so. I also read  that  since I am hypothyroid , my skin is thicker  and  test cream does not soak it well.
  But on the other hand the  DEPO T shots  some guys get,  they get alot of peaks and  valleys  of the testosterone  levels with shots. All I know is I want to  feel better, I would not mind getting some  results with all my lifting I am doing, gets  despondent to lift hard  for a year, see little results, come  home only to see my puffy  nipples  pushing back out.
               Oh, testosterone cream supposedly  makes  your   testis shrink,   well,  maybe they will shrink, get them down to a more managable size :-*
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on June 01, 2008, 03:03:48 PM
Hey Matt, I was suspicious of the T3 thyroid hormone as causing the sudden depression. It makes sense to cut back the synthroid dose when adding T3. Believe me. I know what its like to get hit with thyrotoxic depression from overdose on T3. One day your doing fine, then the next day you CRASH all of a sudden falling to the floor crying for absolutely no reason. I experienced this. Its no fun.

I took androgel and my nuts just about vanished. Its also how I got gyno. Keep an eye on estradiol.

Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on June 02, 2008, 08:40:44 PM
skyhawk, why did you stop androgel?

 I got my androgel from the  pharmacy today, they messed up, I was supposed to get  30  day supply,  with 3 refills, I got 6 BOXES with TWO  bottles in each  box, that  900 ml of testosterone cream!!!
  One  bottle   will last 30 days at 4  pumps a day, and there are two  bottle per box. Six boxes have 12 bottles which is 1 years worth
   I think they make something to help with shrunken doo- dads.
  I  have low testosterone and some depression issues, hoping this creme will help with  both.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on June 03, 2008, 02:58:00 PM
  I have very puffy nipples, now that I  am  on this  testosterone gel I will have to monitor  my  estrodiol. It turns out, one  gyne doc  I talked to wont  treat my gyne intill I get my testosterone under control. He did not elaborate.
     Everything is a two edged sword.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on June 05, 2008, 12:53:19 PM
 One week into useing the Adrogel I feel like a million  bucks, never rememeber feeling this good........ unbelievable
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on June 05, 2008, 01:29:24 PM
I remember feeling pretty good too one week into androgel. I stopped the androgel due to the breast enlargement. The doc that prescribed it didn't bother to mention monitoring Estadiol and managing E2 levels. Also. I could not afford the $50 copay every month.

I want to start back up on testosterone therapy, but do it right this time tracking and managing E2 levels. There is no doctor in my area that does that, sooooo... I am going to attempt to do this through friends that are physicians. If I can afford to pursue it financially.

Glad to hear you are feeling better Matt. Keep this thread alive.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on June 06, 2008, 12:43:27 PM
hormone history  synopses

45year old male, hypothytoid since age 13, gynecomastia[puffy nipples] since age 13 yrs. 6'7'' 290. lift weights and use elipitical machine with little results. High BF with fat around thr middle.
Put on AD meds 3 yrs ago for a bad depression spell. Still on AD meds.
6 months ago decided to check my hormones after reading possible link of hormones to gynecomastia and depression. Hired a company from the web called bodylogicmd.com.
here is me

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cf11b3127ccec2e9033a2ffa00000016100FcOGbls4Yg9vPhQ

first blood results from 12/07' prior to any hrt
cortisol morning 17.6 high range 3.7-9.5 ng/ml
cortisol noon 6.0 high range 1.2-3.0
cortisol eve 2.3 high range .6-1.9
DHEAS saliva 13.2 ok range 2-23
free T4 1.5 ok range .7-2.5
freeT3 2.4 low range 2.5-6.5
TSH 2,0 OK
ESRODIOL 81 HIGH RANGE 12-56 Pg/ML
testosterone 357 low range 400-1200
SHBG 36
RATIO T/SHDG .3 LOW range .7-1.0
psa 1.7 ok
lh 6.1 ok

started me on meds below 1/ 21/o8
T3 tablets 30 mcg daily Cytomil
Arimidex 1mg tab 2x a week
testosterone cream [ compounded] 20 mgs/ml strength, apply 1 ml dail 6x week
DR WILSons adrenal suppliments, and fish oil tabs

doing ok till about 5 weeks into HRT, I had a bad reaction in the middle of the night, itchy, sweaty, burning skin, SEVERE SUICIDAL depression return, hot flashes, stopped all of the HRT, took about 6 days and I started to feel better. In the mean time went to my primary doc, told him about my HRT treatment from another doc, he did blood tests.

blood results 3/19/ 08, 5 or so weeks into HRT, then 6 days off
FREE T 474 RANGE 241- 827 NG./ML
T4 1.30 .61-1.76
TSH .359 .350-5.50
CORTISOL 17.9 3'1-22.4
FREE TESTOSTERONE 12.4 RANGE 6.8-21.5 PG/ML

stayed off HRT, hired a new Endo doc, he said stay off HRT 4 weeks and retested blood work
4 weeks off any HRT, results
TestosteronE SERUM 305 NG/ML RANGE 350-1030
Free T 1.6 '' 1.5-3.2
free t 49 ng/ml range 52-280
shbg 43 range 20-60
prolactin 7.8 ok
ESTRODIOL .61 RANGE .8-3.5

** note how my estrodiol was low, i was very hiGH estrodiol prior to HRT
2 weeks ago my new endo doc started my on 5 mcg of T3 Cytomil, but dropped my synthroid med from 225 to 200 mcg said the t3 is potent so need to lower the synthoid as we add T3.
I got a B12 shot on my own 2 weeks ago
Started androgel 4 pumps a day 5 days ago.
Now feeling great , no depression at all. Plan on getting blood tested in another week or so, MY FEAR is my natural testosterone will stop, my T levels will drop and I will feel like SH...t
My goal is to taper off the AD meds, get gynecomastia operation for VERY puffy nipples, get hormones under control, loose fat and get a better build. thanks for looking Matt



Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: Paa_Paw on June 06, 2008, 03:26:45 PM
You said that you got a B12 shot on your own and that you started using Androgel about 5 days ago.

Were these prescribed? Or did you do this on your own?

There is not a Dr. on this Earth that can help you if you are self medicating between visits.

The result of self medicating is that your Lab results are altered and you'll never get your medications right. Meaning that you'll also never get your hormones to stabilize.

Adjusting your reproductive physiology is not a do-it-yourself job.

Let the Endocrinologist do the job you are paying for.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on June 06, 2008, 05:15:06 PM
Is getting a vitamin b-12 shot considered self medicating? Maybe it is. I'm not really sure. 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on June 06, 2008, 05:21:54 PM
You said that you got a B12 shot on your own and that you started using Androgel about 5 days ago.

Were these prescribed? Or did you do this on your own?

There is not a Dr. on this Earth that can help you if you are self medicating between visits.

The result of self medicating is that your Lab results are altered and you'll never get your medications right. Meaning that you'll also never get your hormones to stabilize.

Adjusting your reproductive physiology is not a do-it-yourself job.

Let the Endocrinologist do the job you are paying for.

 I do everything under a doctors presciption.
 The  b 12 shot does not require a prescription, they offer  them free to people at local health fairs.  I went to a clinic and paid 60 bucks for the shot.  I plan on another next week.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: skyhawk on June 06, 2008, 06:54:42 PM
Hmmm... Maybe I should go and get some sublingual b12. That might give me some more energy. its second best to a shot. Won't do anything for the gyno, but I could use energy being i'm low T.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on June 06, 2008, 06:58:57 PM
 been all over the net at different   forums,  everyone is suggesting  the shots of testosterone are much better then the  creams, I will investigate
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: Paa_Paw on June 07, 2008, 02:43:04 PM
Sorry if I presumed too much.

What threw me was the B12 shot.

Here in California, You need a prescription to get either a needle or syringe. So having any kind of injection on your own was an indication that you were self medicating. At least from my perspective.

That is not to say that medications, syringes etc. are hard to find; people buy from Mexican Pharmacies.
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on June 08, 2008, 07:35:39 PM
pee paw,,,,
 I had a  doctors office give me  the shot,   when I said I got it'' own my own'' I meant   none of my  docs  prescribed or recommended it, t I wanted one, found an office that offered it, went and got one.
    I will get another in a week or so.
          I will upon my next  visit to one of my docs ask for a prescription for b 12,    it is sold  in 1ml  vials  and  one  can  give oneself a shot as needed. I will have my  EMS  neighbor   give me the  shot.
 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: MSJ108 on June 09, 2008, 06:22:57 PM
How do you post those shutterfly pics. I can't figure it out...  :-[
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on June 10, 2008, 08:47:42 PM
 had a MRi  on my  pituitary  gland today, I wanted to  see if any  lesions on my pituitary gland  could  contribute to hormone  issues

   some general  notes on me

 low testosterone
 hi estrodiol
did not reach puberty till 18
 grew 6 ''  between age 18 - 19-20
 hypothyroid
vit D defficient [ even with being out in the sum all the time]
 puffy nipples  since teen years
 

 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on June 24, 2008, 05:14:06 PM
  updaTE

  5 weeks on  Androgel and doing well. I  upped my  dose  from 5g to 7 gram two weeks ago. Depression lifted. Tapering  slowwwwwwwly of  AD meds. I had my Testosterone tested 3 week into useing the  T  gel,  getting more  blood work with  about 25 tests  in July. At that point will decide what level of  testosterone I will  need.
 The gel has  side effects as it converts to estrogen easily  , so I will need   a  AI  to help with that. The T NATION forum I go on suggest T shots for the long run, I will consider this at a later time.   
  BIG NEWS....
                Went and paid  for  my gyne surgery  today. Paid in full. Scheduled  for  July 3rd at 10 am.  I am  getting   gyne  and  lipo  for my chin, it was only an extra 1500 to rid of double chin.
          Both scared and nervous, doc  seems competent. 
Title: Re: Testosterone Therapy Update
Post by: matthew1 on July 19, 2008, 05:37:01 PM
 operations went well..........

 back to focusing on  hormone treatment.... doc switch  me to Testosterone shot with HCG injection starting  this monday
 gel was not absorbing well, T level  that started at 357  went  to 166!
    Between  new  chest and  new chin, T shots, and  weightlifting, hoping to look  and feel better then ever.................