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Re: Weird Occurance!!!

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Offline hypo

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Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2004, 03:19:37 PM »
Optimistic,

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Over doing this in some people who may have borderline or low testosterone may become more of a problem than just a "blip".
unquote

Increased prolactin secretion following masterbation is NOT a factor in the aetiology of gynecomastia.

Prolactin IS a causative factor of gynecomastia, when levels of prolactin are VERY high, something that happens when an individual has a prolactinoma (a prolactin secreting tumor of the pituitary)

As those who have prolactinomas often develop gynecomastia and with it lactation from the breast.

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Not to mention the older we get the lower our testosterone becomes.
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Testosterone does not significantly fall with age.  It is SHBG (sex hormone binding globuin) and estradiol that increases with age, binding testosterone and blocking the actions of testosterone respectively.

So it is the bioavailable fraction of testosterone that often falls with age.

The aging male often develops gynecomastia due to increasing shbg and estradiol.  The average 59 year old male has more estrogens circulating in his endocrine system than your average woman of the same age who is not on HRT.

So testosterone deficiency (hypogonadism) or more accurately, rather bioavailable testosterone deficency is a significant cause of gynecomastia.

10% of all gynecomastia sufferers are attributed to hypogonadism as laid out in the 1996 white paper entitled Gynnecomastia by endocrinologist Glen D Braunstein M.D.  The latest white paper by Endocrinology of Gynaecomastia by Ismail and Barth 2002 concurs with these findings.

The ratio of androgens to estrogens is THE singular cause of gynecomastia.

Androgens and estrogens are NOT significantly impacted by the release of prolactin following masterbation.

AbNormal,

Alcohol is very toxic to the testes and is a known cause of hypogonadism.  A very obvious symptom of this fact is brewers droop.  Testosterone levels fall following consumption of alcohol, whereas estrogens increase thanks to the aromatizing effects of alcohol.  Given that NO is required for erections and NO is derived in part from testosterone, the lack thereof results in a limp or weak erection.

Alcohol is bad news for your androgen to estrogen balance in the short term and in the long term damage maybe permanent, meaning permanently lowered testosterone levels which is often accompanied by.......... yes you've guessed it- gynecomastia.


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But something that I noticed before the gyne came about was that my testes had shrunk a bit
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Testicular size is a good guide to testosterone levels, with smaller testiscles often meaning few leydig cells and with it lower testosterone.  This is why endocrinologist often measure testicle size with an orchidometer when considering testosterone deficiency.

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I think I also had zinc deficiency as well when I finally quit drinking, because my eyes would hurt around bright lights, then I started taking zinc every day, and that immediately went away.  Also, the 1st time that I took the zinc tablets, I felt strangely energized and "odd" for a couple hours.. I don't know why else that would have occured, other than because I didn't have enough zinc in my system.
unquote

Zinc acts as an aromatse inhibitor in some men.  This means that it prevents the bodies testosterone from being converted to estradiol.  It means that zinc supplementation may increase bioavailable testosterone in some men.

Testosterone is not just used for building big muscles, it is vital for energy, stamina and a whole host of other factors.  It is therefore not surprising that you felt invigorated by taking this supplementation, this is most probably attributable to a greater fraction of bioavailable testosterone.  

If you are deficient in zinc this supplementation may even increase the size of your testicles, as reducing aromatization of testosterone to estradiol will alter the negative feedback of estradiol on the (Hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis) HPTA. This is because reducing estradiol leads to an increase in the messanger hormone (Luteinising Hormone) LH and increases in LH tell the testicles to increase leydig cells.  The result of In increasing leydig cells is an increase in testicular size.    


Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2004, 03:50:23 PM »
Thanks Hypo, some really helpful info there.

I had done some research on the internet to come to the conclusions that I came to about my symptoms..  but your info has made it a lot easier to understand.  It is appreciated.

Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2004, 03:59:28 PM »
Also, from what I understood from past reading, zinc is also basically the main vitamin which is necessary for healthy male reproductive system function.  There's some other vitamins that are also very helpful, but zinc is supposed to be the main one.

This is why oysters are considered an afrodesiac for men, oysters have the highest natural zinc content of any food.

But taking more than 50mg of zinc a day can be unhealthy if I remember correctly.  I took like 50 mg every day for 3 weeks or so, then went down to the recommended I think it's 5mg after that.  This was about a year and a half ago.

It's amazing how much just taking a daily multivitamin can increase a person's health.

Another thing that I've done ot try to help my situation, is to.. I've gotta say this bluntly, there's no other way to.. is to massage my testes in a hot bath every 2-3 days.  It would make sense that stimulating blood flow to the testes could help clear out the toxins and stimulate healthy function.. and I've noticed that I feel noticably more "robust" physically after I do the massage baths.

It could be that I've damaged my testes with the alcohol that I drank, and they need more "babying" than most men's to properly produce testosterone.  It definitely seems that way to me, anyway, from how I feel when I'm taking care of myself (taking vitamins, not drinking, etc) as compared to if I ever slack off.

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Offline hypo

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Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2004, 04:33:33 PM »
I think the situation with the baths maybe the placebo effect.  

The testicles hang in the scrotum, because they are sensitive to heat and require a lower temperature than the rest of the human body in order to function correctly.  Testicles that do not decend into the scrotum at birth are often removed, as they do not function if they have been in the hotter climate of the human body for any appreciable amount of time.

So be careful as to how hot those baths are :o

A few more facts...

Losing weight can increase testosterone and prevent the growth of glandular gynecomastia.

As the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone to estradiol is found in adipose tissue, particularly in the thighs and stomach.

It is best to reduce excess weight via exercise not via a low fat diet.

Dietary fat is required for cholesterol and cholesterol is required in order that the body may produce testosterone.  Cholesterol is a building block of testosterone.

Reducing stress can ensure healthier levels of testosterone.  This is because the adrenal glands produce corisol when you are stressed and cortisol has an inhibiting effect on testosterone.  That is the reason that you wont feel up for it with your girlfriend when you are stressed out.

Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2004, 07:23:21 AM »
Perhaps you can give a link to someone doing  a study or a study that has been done showing zero connection with this masturbation and the quote "blip" that doesn't effect the estrogen levels at all in the male body.

Thanks  =)

GOD BLESS!

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Offline hypo

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Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2004, 08:47:16 AM »
No.

But if you give me your address, I will post to you two of the most important reports examining the aetiology of gynecomastia in the last 25 years.

Harold E Carlson M.D endocrinologists 1980 white paper on Gynecomastia and Glenn D Braunstein M.D endocrinologist 1996 white paper on Gynecomastia.

Here is the latest most significant white paper on Gynecomastia, The Endocrinology of Gynecomastia 2002 by Ismail and Barth

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/acb/annals/annals_pdf/Nov01/596.pdf  

Please view page page 2 table 1 causes of gynecomastia and their relative frequency.

Masturbation does NOT cause, a build up of estrogen or gynecomastia- period.


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Offline hypo

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Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2004, 08:55:46 AM »
If you do believe there is a connection, you are at odds with ALL the evidence and ALL the endocrinologists in the world, from the US to Europe and beyond.

Of course in the absence of any evidence whatsoever, you can of course believe whatever you like, that is your perogative.  


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Offline kindherb42

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Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2004, 09:09:22 AM »
i know this is an argumentative topic but i'm curious about something. well first off im only 16 and have puffy nipples from age 14 and grew into i guess mild gyne(i'm the one the doctors said has BDD, but anyways...) i used to smoke weed all the time and drink and i would NEVER feel anything in my chest when i would smoke, but then when ir ead that gyne can be caused by weed, EVERYTIME i smoke my gland feels like  it burns and stuff? could this just be me psyching myself out?why did i never get this before, until i read about it?

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Offline hypo

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Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2004, 09:42:01 AM »
The current thinking is that marijuana does have a weak association with gynecomastia.

Certainly its association isn't anywhere near as strong as other drugs such as aromatizable androgens, androgen inhibitng drugs, some antibiotics and anti ulcer medications etc

It is thought that in some people, it is a causative factor.  However it quite clearly has no such affect in many, many people.

Irrespective of the arguments and merits of marijuana being a causative factor, you could be psyching yourself out as you put it, as the placebo effect can be very powerful and shouldn't be underestimated.

Of course the only way of ensuring that it is not a causative factor in your situation is not to take it.

That's the reality.

Not that I have an opinion one way or the other.



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Offline kindherb42

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Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2004, 11:48:32 AM »
thank you

Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2004, 01:45:47 PM »
Quote
No.

But if you give me your address, I will post to you two of the most important reports examining the aetiology of gynecomastia in the last 25 years.

Harold E Carlson M.D endocrinologists 1980 white paper on Gynecomastia and Glenn D Braunstein M.D endocrinologist 1996 white paper on Gynecomastia.

Here is the latest most significant white paper on Gynecomastia, The Endocrinology of Gynecomastia 2002 by Ismail and Barth

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/acb/annals/annals_pdf/Nov01/596.pdf  

Please view page page 2 table 1 causes of gynecomastia and their relative frequency.

Masturbation does NOT cause, a build up of estrogen or gynecomastia- period.




Thank you for posting that paper Hypo.. some great info there.

Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2004, 01:53:17 PM »
Quote



Thank you for posting that paper Hypo.. some great info there.



But I want to say that I disagree.. I feel that chronic masturbation could definitely be a cause of it.. and that paper does not address masturbation in any way at all.  It focuses on a different aspect of gynecomastia.

The very fact that 2 people have reported reduction is size after ceasing masturbation for a week is, while circumstantial, a good indication that it does affect gynecomastia.

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Offline hypo

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Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2004, 04:28:27 PM »
If you read all the papers available, you would realise it does not have an effect.

Gynecomastia occurs most often at two significant points in life, puberty and 50+.

The reason for this, is due to the changes in hormones at these two junctures in life.

At puberty due to the relative imbalance that can occur between androgens - estrogens and at 50+, due to the lowering of the bioavailable fraction of testosterone thanks to a rise in SHBG and estradiol.

If what your saying were true, it would be common to develop gynecomastia at any age 23, 27 etc, but it is not, development of gynecomastia is relatively rare in other age other than those outlinned above.

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The very fact that 2 people have reported reduction is size after ceasing masturbation for a week is, while circumstantial, a good indication that it does affect gynecomastia
unquote

It tells nothing.  

Furthermore, there is no difference between masturbation and having sex from a biochemical standpoint and sex addiction does not cause PADAM/hypogonadism period.

Therefore it does not cause gynecomastia.

If you want to look at culprets, I have plenty for you.

Puberal hormone changes (as above)
50+ hormone changes (as above)
Excess weight leading to increased aromatization of testosterone
condition of excess aromatization
Idiopathic...thought to relate to androgen receptors/tissue response
Steroid abuse
Alcohol abuse/heavy drinking
Liver damage/cirrhosis
Renal disease
Hyperthyroidism
Haemochromatosis
A string of other drugs, prescribed or otherwise
mumps (Orchitis)
Vasectomy
varicocoele of the testes
Testicular injury
Testicular tumors
overheating of the testes/undecended testes
removal of one or both testes
Estrogen producing tumors e.g hepatocellular carcinoma
Breast cancer
HIV AIDS
Radiotherapy
Chemotherapy
Pituitary insufficiency (can occur via injury to the head)
Pituitary tumors, prolactinomas etc
Klinfelters syndrome
Kallmans syndrome
Additional Karotype issues which relate to genetics such as 47xyy syndrome, other mosaics
androgen insensitivity/resistance syndromes
malnutrition
refeeding following malnutrition

and others which I may have missed.




Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2004, 10:40:38 AM »
Normally, the testes produce 4–7 milligrams (mg) of testosterone daily. Over depleting this might have adverse effects that has not been studied as far as I know pertaining to gynecomastia and gland growth in some individuals. Please enlighten me with a link if you did find that study thank you =).

"Testosterone is the androgenic hormone primarily responsible for normal growth and development of male sex and reproductive organs, including the penis, testicles, scrotum, prostate, and seminal vesicles" How is this testosterone different from the testosterone that aromatizes?

hypo:"Gynecomastia occurs most often at two significant points in life, puberty and 50+"

Thank you for pointing out the 2 times your estrogen is poling for position against testosterone at the times you are having sex either with yourself or another person frequently. Doesn't sound impossible or is this incorrect?

Notice puberty the major time people are masturbating and their testosterone is trying to surpass your estrogen. I think it may be something people haven't done any tests or experiments on. Unless they are monitoring a kid in the puberty stage, NONE! of us can say 100% there is no connection to be honest and rational.  

At 50+ your testosterone has diminished and I would like to know the estrogen and testosterone balance at age 50 may be close in some men and in others estrogen might be outweighing it. So if men at 50 are masturbating wouldn't this boost the estrogen against a falling testosterone? Sounds rational are men going to stop masturbating or having sex as frequently because of this ? NO way so a study like this may never take place.

I don't see a difference here do you? Constantly forcing it to create more and more I think ads to a need for someone to do a study on this instead of ignoring it. Not to say this happens in all people there might be an underlying problems that over masturbating might suface... hence gynecomastia in it's smallest form.

Just have to test it out on yourselves you can't believe everything you read of course. Most people read findings and give up on their own experimenting but everyones body is different.

Re: Weird Occurance!!!
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2004, 10:49:51 AM »
Since the majority of cases occur either during puberty or in men in their 50+, how come doctors don't monitor these groups of people during these two point in a mans life? Is there anything that could be done to prevent gyne from developing in these two groups of people?

I mean I know for me, when I get this fixed I NEVER want it to come back, even when I'm 50.

And I wouldn't want it to ever become a problem for my son (if I ever have one).

I know that doctors probably don't want to mess with the natural hormone activity, but there must be something that can be done. Right?


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