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Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suicide?

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Offline sadgyneguy

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Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suicide?
« on: January 31, 2006, 11:10:09 AM »
im just wondrin if anybody here who is very very much depressed, thinking of suicide as one of the ways to escape to this kind of situation?

Linkback: https://www.gynecomastia.org/smf/index.php?topic=4262.0
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Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2006, 11:25:51 AM »
No I have to many other problems to think about suicide.

Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2006, 11:31:41 AM »
to commit suicide at all you would hafto first be a complete nutcase.

Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2006, 11:39:20 AM »
A MAJOR symptom of low testosterone is depression.

Depression is often a chemical results of low testosterone and low testosterone is the cause of gynecomastia for 10% of men.

So given these associations, depression for some men is absolutely understandable and not so crazy :-/

Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2006, 12:02:12 PM »
Where low testosterone is a cause of gynaecomastia, it can affect men in different ways depending on their age.  In young men and boys it can cause late onset of puberty or not occurring at all.  In adult men it can have a negative effect on libido, reproduction capability and general well being.  Common symptoms include:

Muscle weakness
Tiredness
Lethargy
Increased body fat
Lipid disorders
Anaemia
Insulin resistance
Erectile dysfunction (impotence)
Loss of libido (sex drive)
Decreased shaving frequency
Hot/cold flushes
Sweating
Loss of body and facial and pubic hair
Smooth, fine, wrinkly skin
Shrinking testicles
Osteoporosis

AND Depression.  But that only applies to men defined as having low testosterone (below 12nmol/L but this figure varies from country to country)

Men with gynaecomastia but not low testosterone are as prone to depression as the rest of the general population.  However, for many men with gynaecomastia that alone can be the cause of depression mainly due to psychological reasons of the condition.

Depression is a very unique condition.  Whilst there can be common causes for depression it is usually much more complex than that an so no two peoples depression is the same.  Suicidal thoughts are a common symptom of depression.  Gynaecomastia can cause poor self image and low self esteem.

You have not stated why you are asking the question, but for any guys out there that feel depressed or even suicidal about their condition should seek to find help.  There is a wide range of ways to deal with it, but it would not be practical to go into a discussion on that here.  The best port of call in the first instance is you GP (Family Doctor or General Practitioner).  As for testosterone therapy (long and short acting injections, gels, skin patches, implants, capsules, buccal system), these can help alleviate many of the symptoms including depression.

Hope that helps.

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Offline Fajha

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Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 12:33:58 PM »
Thanks for the reply Phantom.  I have walked that line many a time.

This condition and it's associated symptons can illicit that level of depression in a person.

It is not something to be laughed at, it can be serious in many a case.  I was unfortunately one of those diagnosed with gyno as well as low testerone, etc.

So... I can get pretty lethargic at times and need iron type supplements.  I am facing the likelihood of never having off-spring, etc.  I sweat like a pig when I work out or during most heightened activity.  I can dry shave every three days or longer - as I have little bodily hair,etc.

So... have I at one point or the other felt suicidal?  You betcha.  Nothing like a friend to point out that you have breasts when you are at the race track in your leather body hugging suit.

Sorry... did not mean to rant.

F.

Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 01:09:51 PM »
Quote
Where low testosterone is a cause of gynaecomastia, it can affect men in different ways depending on their age.  In young men and boys it can cause late onset of puberty or not occurring at all.  In adult men it can have a negative effect on libido, reproduction capability and general well being.  Common symptoms include:

Muscle weakness
Tiredness
Lethargy
Increased body fat
Lipid disorders
Anaemia
Insulin resistance
Erectile dysfunction (impotence)
Loss of libido (sex drive)
Decreased shaving frequency
Hot/cold flushes
Sweating
Loss of body and facial and pubic hair
Smooth, fine, wrinkly skin
Shrinking testicles
Osteoporosis
AND Depression.  



Men who have low testosterone can have one,some or all of the above.

I factually know of men who have had gynecomastia and depression and NO other obvious symptoms of low testosterone.

Just like I know of men who with low testosterone whose only symptoms has been poor concentartion and fatigue.

You have implied that Depression is only something that indicates testosterone deficiency in the presence of the above ailments.  Whilst it is common to have a variety of the above, like I say sufferers rarely have all of the above and are often in a grey zone where only one or two symptoms are prominent.

I can show you many men who have been incorrectly given anti depressants for years before it was discovered that they had testosterone deficiency.  Once the latter was treated many of these men no longer needed anti depressants.

If you want infomation on the above I can gladly provide it.

This is another reason that highlights the need for endocrine/pathology testing of all men with gyencomastia.

Quote

But that only applies to men defined as having low testosterone (below 12nmol/L but this figure varies from country to country)


This is simplistic and utterly wrong!!!

Your statement is at odds with ALL the modern thinking on testosterone deficiency.  It is at odds with both eminent experts that I have stated and it is at odds with the AACE (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists) and there guidelines on hypogonadism and it is at odds with almost every single endocrine body in the world.

The reality is detailed by Dr Eugene Shippen in his book The Testosterone Syndrome and is also explained to a lesser extent on The Testosterone Deficiency Center patient support group below

I know these FACTS as I have been involved with and speaking to men with low testosterone across the world with support groups in differing countries for over two years.

I can also speak from the experience of having read all the relevant new thinking and information on the subject matter including all the books written by Dr Eugene Shippen and Dr Malcolm Carruthers (two prominent world authorities on the subject matter).

I have personally met and spoken with many world leading authorities on the subject including the two mentioned and I also am a man with low testosterone and osteoporosis as a result of low term undiagnosed testosterone deficiency (I would not have osteoporosis if correct testing was put in place 13 years prior).

http://www.androids.org.uk/

A serum testosterone level alone is of little diagnostic use and in any event many men have been shown to have testosterone deficiency with levels way above the level you have stated (which is taken from outdated information).

I concur with the rest of your post relating to depression, just not that which relates to testosterone deficiency as it is incorrect.




Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2006, 06:46:09 PM »
Hey sadgynegye,

I think many people are somewhat depressed and have considered suicide, but probably not too seriously.

If you think about it a lot, maybe go seek some help and guidance from someone you trust.

There's a solution for your problem somewhere, you just gotta find it.  Might take some time to find it, but you will find it if you work at it.


Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2006, 09:11:57 PM »
Hypo-is-here

Re: Low testosterone levels

What I had stated was taken from Behre HM. In: Andrology. Male Reproductive Health and Dysfunction; Chapter 6; 2001; second edition.  This is what General Practitioners use as a guide in the UK.  You want to tell them otherwise, then that's 40,000 GPs you need to get in touch with.  Once they have sorted out national service frameworks or NSFs, enforced by the government such as diabetes, heart disease, psychiatry and the elderly in order, they might get round to the handful of of patients regarding testosterone deficiency out of a couple of thousand they have a duty of care for.

You want to tear each and every one of my posts to pieces, be my guest.  Please respect my request that you cease to patronise me by saying where my posts are good or 'brilliant'.  I find the 'sh*t sandwich' approach has best effect on naughty children needing behaviour correction.  I am not here for validation or pats on the back from you or anyone else.

Sometimes my information might be wrong.  By all means provide the additional information to inform the forum users.  Often it comes down to a different opinion as with the above.

I am not actually interested who you know, who you speak with, it does not add value to your posts.  I regard it as you confusing what is important with what is impressive.

I cannot speak for other guys on here, but when small (and often irrelevant points) are being hacked to death, littered with lengthy scientific facts that is better suited to a professional forum, I switch off and skip the post, which is a shame because there just might be a nugget of useful information in what you say.

I am sure you appreciate my direct and to the point feedback on you style, which as a rule I would not ordinarily do.

I'm sorry to the OP for going off topic.

Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2006, 04:03:35 AM »
It is unfortunate that you take the attitude you have.

I was praising and critisizing your posts because I wanted you to know that I was not just being nsaty but being honest and applying constructive critisism.

The fact of the matter is I am very knowledgeable when it come to the area of hormones and testosterone given the fact that I suffer from hypogonadism and have been dealing with experts from around the world and support groups for the past 2 years+.

You do not know what you are talking about when it comes to hormones, sorry but you simply don't.

You have read some information offf the internet and have taken certain information that relates to gps (who are NOT experts in these matters) and you have ran away with yourself.

You are giving out incorrect information- what would you have me do?

Please tell me.

I live every single day with hypogonadism and I have been supporting men with hypogonadism and gynecomastia and detailing the need for pathology for the past two years.

You do not live with this condition, you do not speak to the men that have hormone problems across the world, you do not speak with the foremost experts regarding hormone problems across the world and you have not read the many endocrine reviews and books written by the eminent sources on the subject.

I have done and continue to do all the above.

So please stop being so arrogant.

This is NOT something you are conversant with, so stop trying to present information on it as too much of it is incorrect or misleading.  I know you are trying to help but in this one area your're not.

Just to add;

You have been here since November, you didn't even know when you first arrived on the seen that gynecomastia was a condition and you knew virtually nothing regarding hormones.

I am sure there are subject where you are far more than I and in such subjects I would not try to tell you what the realities are please do not try to do it with me as I am VASTLY more knowledgable and experienced than you are when it comesa to these specific matters.

And Yea I have also said some of your posts have been real good because I genuinely mean it, you are obviously an intelligent articulate man and do offer some very good posts.

That isn't anything other than pointing out the good with the bad- being constructively critical, I am sorry if you do see that as patronizing as it certainly isn't intended to be.

P.S

Think very carefully before replying because I know FAR more than you think I do and if you do not construct your reply very carefully you may find yourself getting in over your head.





Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2006, 04:13:10 AM »
Going back to the subject and my the important point I was detailing.

I know many men who were suffered from serious depression for many years, some of which were put on anti depressant some of which attempted suicide.

These men were found too have low testosterone, something which can often induce a chemical depression.

Many of these men since diagnosis and treatment for low testosterone no longer require anti depressants.

Given that 10% of all gynecomastia sufferers have low testosterone (hypogonadism) it is easy to see how a far greater percentage of men with gynecomastia will have depression as a result of unknown low testosterone than would be found in the general population.

This in itself is a very good reason why men with depression and gynecomastia should have a full hormonal evaluation with an endocrinologist who specializes in reproductive endocrinology.


IMPORTANT NOTE:

Of course depression can result separately from psychological problems and simply be due to gynecomastia or a whole host of other issues.  

Having depression does not of course mean you have low testosterone.  It does mean however if you are at this website you most likely have one major symptom of low testosterone and and associated condition in gynecomastia, which is why the testing I am calling for makes perfect common sense.







Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2006, 04:31:10 AM »
Arrogant hey?  I counted no less than 15 gross assumptions you have made about me.  Thing is, I don't tend to plaster my whole life onto the net to convince people of who I am or what I know.

So maybe I copied a thing or two from the net for my posts. Maybe I didn't.  Maybe I should give up my day job cuz selling in hormones in gynaecology and andrology to GPs and consultants on a daily basis according to you just ain't my thing.  Once my sales for Nebido and Testogel slump and my bonuses stop rolling in I'll know I am not good at what I do, I'll quit.  Until then I will tolerate your attitude problem.


To assume is to make an ASS of U and ME.


As for your knowledge, you last assumption.  I have never doubted how well read you on on this subject and I would not pretend to have such detailed clinical knowledge.  But even where I am able to quote my evidence, you rubbish it.   But as you say, you know better.  How can anyone compete with that? ::)

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Offline Fajha

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Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2006, 04:49:44 AM »
Gentlemen (Phanthom & Sadgyneguy), I am sure that by the time I am done here, I will at one point or the other speak out of term.

I first want you both to realize that this site was the first glimmer of hope I had of being able to correct my condition and actually feel human and like a man as I was born.

This site is the one that provided valuable information, feedback and suggestion that eventually led to me getting surgery and fighting this thing.

This site was able to do this for many of because of ALL the contributions of ALL the members.  You both have acquired knowledge of this situation - and whether you are sometimes right or wrong is not what should be in contention here.  It is the GREATER good you provide to everyone that you make you both realize your value to all of us.

I would feel dismayed if this site or thread disentigrated into another typical internet post where people went on personal attacks towards each other.

I humbly ask that you both see beyond any personal differences and if one person states something wrong - then by all means correct it, but do so objectively.  Maybe even compare notes and findings.  The science of medicine is not perfect and my Endocronologist and I had a fun time working through my very own diagnosis.

To you both, I quote a great writer's words, "To err is human, but to forgive is divine"  You both seem like rather well educated gentlemen with a wealth of knowledge - please share it.

Thanks!

PS:  Sorry for the rant.   :-/

Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2006, 04:53:17 AM »
I didn't read it as a rant fajha  - rather just words of tact and diplomacy.  And I take your point on board.  Thanks.

Small note, you refer to myself and sadgyneguy.  Did you in fact mean myself and hypo-is-here?

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Offline Fajha

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Re: Can Depression due to gynecomstia lead to suic
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2006, 04:53:27 AM »
And now... to an actual question.

My Endocronologist got approval for me to receive Testoterone gel.  Which I daresay is much easier than the injections I used to have to shot into my thighs.

I have stayed off it since surgery for fear that it might bring back the onset of Gyno all over again.  I am being paranoid?  Do I have cause to be concerned?  Should I go back to my gel?

Any and ALL feedback is appreciated.

Fajha.


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