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Andractim

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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2005, 02:49:41 PM »
Quote


By questioning the fact that Andractim reduces and resolves glandular gynecomastia you are effectively calling one of the countries leading endocrinologists a liar and you are calling his counterparts in many other countries where studies have been performed that have shown similar reults liars as well.

Who should we believe a kid who knows nothing whatsoever about the aetiology of gynecomastia or Glenn D Braunstein M.D endocrinologist.

A bit of a no brainer :P




Damn, thats one hella of a run on sentence! You need to go back and take high school English and stop trying to impress people with all your writing. You sentences do not even make sense.

I can sit here all day and all night and argue with you. The reason I am doing so right now, is because I cannot do much since I just had surgery. Im pretty much glued to the computer, and bored to death.

Obviously you have nothing else better to do than sit here, argue back and fourth with someone that lives 1,000's of miles away from you. It shows the kind of person you are. A nit wit.

If Andractim work so well, there would be before and after photos, showing a visual change from the use of it. There are none. There are hundreds of users on here that you influenced into buying Andractim by your repeated "it works" posts. Out of the hundreds on here that have used it, there are NONE that have pictures to back the claim up that it works. None. Zero. "0".

You can go on and on again about the SINGLE link you showed us saying he had results from the Andractim. I as well as countless others agree there are no results.
Are you blind?

What else can you possibly argue about now? Theres  no visual proof. NONE. ZERO. NADDA. "0". Do you understand Hypo? Yes or no? DO you understand that there are no before and after photos showing a significant visual chage from the use of Andractim in treating gynecomastia? Answer the question. (Don't blab on about other crap thats off subject like you always do.) Answer my question.
$2,800 = Freedom!

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/vaiomanfree/album?.dir=7e36&.src=ph&am p;store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/vaiomanfree/my_photos

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Offline Daveo

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Offline headheldhigh01

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2005, 11:06:02 PM »
hypo, for all his extensive endocrinological wisdom, sometimes treats impersonal discussions of fact or opinion with more personal sensitivity than the occasion may call for.  let it go as you've done and keep to the issue so far as you think is productive.  
* a man is more than a body will ever tell
* if it screws up your life the same, is there really any such thing as "mild" gyne?

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Offline hypo

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2005, 01:21:09 AM »
I am willing to argue back and forth because it is my perogative and because this is an area I am interest in given the endocrinology.  

Do not try to imply that this is an acceptable topic for you to discuss but that it is not acceptable for me to discuss (stating it shows what I am like)-  because that doesn't hold water.

Also drop the idea about the English, it smacks of a kid hitting out at whatever he can because his arguments are threadbare.

I will say this for you one last time!

This site is not the issue- what is or is not posted here in terms of photographs is neither here nor there;

It is the controlled studies that are important.  

It is the controlled studies by the endocrinologists that have proven the worth of this treatment.

75% reductions in glandular gynecomastia, 25% resolutions of glandular gynecomastia.

And that is not the only study I have more:)

Also can you try getting your god darn fact straight-

I have not influenced anyone to BUY Andractim.  

I have constantly stated that this should not be self medicated and I have constantly told people not to use it unless prescribed it by an endocrinologist.

Furthermore I did not introduce the discussion of Andractim to this website; neither have I at any point mentioned that awful site that sells it to people.

The first discussion that ever involved Andractim on this site saw ME slated on this website by Gruff et al for telling people that they should NOT be self medicating and that that it was IRRESPONSIBLE to be advertising that website.

I am positive about Andractim in the hands of an endocrinologist; just as I am positive about a scalpel in the hands of a surgeon....I don't want either in the hands of self medicating people!!!!!

So please do me a favor and stop talking out of your ass.

If you wish to confirm these facts ask head or do a search.  I believe the original thread was testosterone gel.

It must be said apart from reiterating the same limited point over and over and adding things like- NADDA you have offered little.  

Because you have no arguments and because you have quite literally put your word against that of one of the most eminent endocrinologists in the United States you have had no where else to go.  

So you turn to barn burning- you question my English, you question my right to discuss the topic and without any evidence whatsoever you try mud slinging by calling me into question.

Vaio- any fool can burn a barn.    

Daveo,

I said what I said because your statement was deliberately sarcastic regarding the usefulness of the medication, something you didn’t and still don’t understand.

Head,

For your information- my remarks in that regard were not personal at all.

You guys are having a great go at tag-teaming here to try and put my points down.

But the facts remain the facts however much you dispute them.  

P.S

This discussion is about the viability of this treatment, therefore this whole discussion revolves around endocrinology and you know what?

Not one of you knows a god darn thing about endocrinology!!

That is me finished as far as this thread is concerned- you can say and do what you like from this moment forth.




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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2005, 08:42:14 AM »


Hypo, stop geting off subject. Answer my question YES or NO.
Are there ANY before and after photos showing a VISUAL change in Gynecomastia from using Andractim?
Yes or No?

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Offline Daveo

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2005, 09:10:40 AM »
Sorry to be off-topic, but hypo:

For all of your knowledge about andractim and endocrinology, your knowledge about being tactful and dealing with people is in need of serious work.  Your demeaning approach to conversation is insulting and extremely annoying.

I used to think you were an alright guy just from reading your posts, but now I just think you're disrespectful and rude.

When I was in middle school I used to experience arguments like this in AOL chat rooms.

Getting back on topic, for anyone wondering:

"Should I try Andractim before I get surgery to see if it works?"

No, you shouldn't try andractim before surgery to "see if it works".

"Has anyone on this board gotten good results using it? "

No, assuming "good" means anything that I would be happy living with, and I can only speak for myself.

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Offline Boobs

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2005, 11:31:27 AM »
I think hypo is the only one with any sense around here. go hypo!

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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2005, 11:43:32 AM »
^speak of people Hypo's got using that stuff.

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Offline hypo

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2005, 02:22:45 PM »
Unique Identifier
3088241
Authors
Eberle AJ. Sparrow JT. Keenan BS.
Title
Treatment of persistent pubertal gynecomastia with dihydrotestosterone heptanoate.
Source
Journal of Pediatrics. 109(1):144-9, 1986 Jul.
Abstract
Four boys with persistent pubertal gynecomastia were given intramuscular dihydrotestosterone heptanoate (DHT-hp) at 2 to 4-week intervals for 16 weeks. By the end of treatment, breast size in all four boys had decreased 67% to 78%. Initial plasma levels of gonadotropins, estradiol, testosterone, and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were normal. Mean plasma DHT concentration rose with the injections of DHT-hp, and remained elevated throughout the treatment period. Estradiol, LH, FSH, and testosterone decreased during treatment, as did 24-hour urinary LH and FSH. No regrowth of breast tissue was observed 6 to 15 months after treatment, although hormone concentrations had returned to near pretreatment values by 2 months after the last injection. DHT-hp has potential to be an effective medical therapy for persistent pubertal gynecomastia.


Unique Identifier
6354523
Authors
Kuhn JM. Roca R. Laudat MH. Rieu M. Luton JP. Bricaire H.
Title
Studies on the treatment of idiopathic gynaecomastia with percutaneous dihydrotestosterone.
Source
Clinical Endocrinology. 19(4):513-20, 1983 Oct.
Abstract
We have studied clinical and endocrine parameters in a group (group A) of forth men referred to us because of persistent idiopathic gynaecomastia (of more than 18 months duration), before and during the administration of percutaneous dihydrotestosterone (DHT). The endocrine parameters (testosterone (T), 17 beta-oestradiol (E2), DHT, gonadotrophins (FSH and LH) and prolactin (PRL), were compared to those of control groups of 12 healthy men on DHT therapy (group B) and 10 on placebo (group C). Local administration of DHT was followed by the complete disappearance of gynaecomastia in 10 patients, partial regression in 19 and no change in 11 patients after 4 to 20 weeks of percutaneous DHT (125 mg twice daily). Before treatment the T + DHT/E2 ratio was significantly (P less than 0.001) lower in group A 244 +/- 21 (SEM) than in groups B and C (361 +/- 21) while T, DHT and E2 concentrations were all within the normal range. During DHT treatment plasma hormone levels were measured in 26 patients from group A: DHT levels increases significantly (day 0: 1.63 +/- 0.14 nmol/l; day 15: 12.8 +/- 1.6 nmol/l, P less than 0.001) while T and E2 levels fell significantly (T: day 0: 22.6 +/- 1.2 nmol/l; day 15: 11.0 +/- 1.5 nmol/l, P less than 0.001; E2: day 0: 110.5 +/- 7.12 pmol/l;

Couldn't resist  ;D

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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2005, 03:43:38 PM »
Once again, Hypo dodges the question and refuses to answer it.

Let's try this one again. :)
 
WHY are there NO before and after photos showing a VISUAL change in Gynecomastia from using Andractim?
On this site, or on the ENTIRE INTERNET!

WHY?  ???

(lets see if he goes off subject once again)

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Offline hypo

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2005, 03:53:14 PM »
 ;D

All these endocrinologists are liars and you are right.

Eberle AJ.
Sparrow JT.
Keenan BS.
Kuhn JM.
Roca R.
Laudat MH.
Rieu M.
Luton JP.
Bricaire H.
Braunstein
Shippen

You are right because no one posted photographs on this site for you.

You've got me  ;D

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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2005, 04:05:32 PM »
Thank you Hypo. How that we have come to the conclusion that there are none on this site.

Question #2.

What about on the WHOLE INTERNET itself???
I searched google, and yahoo and found no before and after photos. NONE? Why are there none on the internet itself??

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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2005, 04:13:58 PM »
The point I am trying to make, is that if this product works enough to satisfy people, there would be pictures of them showing the change.
They would be excited!

I cannot find pictures. Im baffled.

Don't get me wrong, how Andractim works, makes perfect sense. Im not some joe shmo, who "talks out his ass". I understand the principle of it.

What I don't get is thru their studys "67% to 78%" of Adolesent boys had breast shrinkage according to the research you posted. Thats a large percent!
Where are the visuals? Where are the pictures, the actual evidence proving this? Showing this? There have hundreds of people on gynecomastia.org that have tried or should I say experimented with Andractim and they have not had any noticable results.





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Offline hypo

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2005, 04:16:57 PM »
Ooh got me again!

Or maybe endocrinologists do not publish medical photographs for idiots searching google and yahoo but keep such sensitive material on medical websites that can only be accessed by medically issued passwords ::)

Mmm- No you got me again its a fair cop ;D

Do me a favour can you go and get me these articles in full text from google or yahoo for me please- cheers  ;D

Unique Identifier
3642405
Record Owner
NLM
Authors
Aw C.

Title
Keeping abreast of gynaecomastia.
Source
Occupational Health. 38(11):367-8, 1986 Nov.
Abbreviated Source
Occup Health (Lond). 38(11):367-8, 1986 Nov.
Publication Notes
The publication year is for the print issue of this journal.
NLM Journal Code
odb, 0021263
Journal Subset
N
Country of Publication
England
MeSH Subject Headings
Child
*Gynecomastia / et [Etiology]
Gynecomastia / ge [Genetics]
Gynecomastia / pc [Prevention & Control]
Human
Male
*Occupational Diseases / pc [Prevention & Control]
ISSN
0029-7917
Publication Type
Journal Article.
Language
English
Entry Date
19870129
Revision Date
20001218
Update Date
20031209


Unique Identifier
4471608
Record Owner
NLM
Authors
Wehby V. Salti I.
Title
The significance of gynecomastia.
Source
Journal Medical Libanais - Lebanese Medical Journal. 27(6):719-21, 1974.
Abbreviated Source
J Med Liban. 27(6):719-21, 1974.
Publication Notes
The publication year is for the print issue of this journal.
NLM Journal Code
j1z, 0375352
Journal Subset
IM
Country of Publication
Lebanon
MeSH Subject Headings
Adolescent
Adult
Age Factors
Gynecomastia / ci [Chemically Induced]
Gynecomastia / di [Diagnosis]
*Gynecomastia / et [Etiology]
Human
Male
ISSN
0023-9852
Publication Type
Journal Article.
Language
English
Entry Date
19751204
Revision Date
20021101
Update Date
20031209

Unique Identifier
4738800
Record Owner
NLM
Authors
Yoshioka I. Katsuta S.
Title
[Clinical study of gynecomastia--an etiological study]. [Japanese]
Source
Horumon to Rinsho - Clinical Endocrinology. 21(4):427-30, 1973 Apr.
Abbreviated Source
Horumon To Rinsho. 21(4):427-30, 1973 Apr.
Publication Notes
The publication year is for the print issue of this journal.
NLM Journal Code
dcp, 0420561
Journal Subset
IM
Country of Publication
Japan
MeSH Subject Headings
Addison's Disease / co [Complications]
Adult
Aged
*Gynecomastia / et [Etiology]
Human
Liver Diseases / co [Complications]
Male
Metabolic Diseases / co [Complications]
Middle Aged
ISSN
0045-7167
Publication Type
Journal Article.
Language
Japanese
Entry Date
19731115
Revision Date
20031114
Update Date
20031209


could be good can’t get

Unique Identifier
9174780
Record Owner
NLM
Authors
Braunstein GD. Glassman HA.
Institution
University of California, School of Medicine, Los Angeles, USA.
Title
Gynecomastia. [Review] [5 refs]
Source
Current Therapy in Endocrinology & Metabolism. 6:401-4, 1997.
Abbreviated Source
Curr Ther Endocrinol Metab. 6:401-4, 1997.
Publication Notes
The publication year is for the print issue of this journal.
NLM Journal Code
cb9, 8601485
Journal Subset
IM
Country of Publication
Canada
MeSH Subject Headings
Adolescent
Adult
Gynecomastia / dt [Drug Therapy]
Gynecomastia / pc [Prevention & Control]
Gynecomastia / su [Surgery]
*Gynecomastia / th [Therapy]
Human
Male
ISSN
0831-652X
Publication Type
Journal Article. Review. Review, Tutorial.
Language
English
Entry Date
19970721
Revision Date
20021101
Update Date
20031209





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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2005, 04:19:51 PM »
Ok so you still back up the claim that it will work, and there are no before and after pictures on the ENTIRE INTERNET!!

Ok we are talking the ENTIRE INTERNET :o! No before and after photos of results from Andractim. And you still believe it will give people a noticable result :o?


If it worked so well (67% to 78%), there would be tons of photos. It would not be hard to find any. As we speak I know you are searching you butt off trying to find some to prove me wrong. Look all you want. I did. I found none!






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