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Andractim

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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2005, 05:15:11 PM »
Alright Hypo, you got the last word ::). (people these days)
$2,800 = Freedom!

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/vaiomanfree/album?.dir=7e36&.src=ph&am p;store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/vaiomanfree/my_photos

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Gine2D

Re: Andractim
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2005, 05:41:44 AM »
On this one I have to disagree with Hypo.  

Any company that has to rely on false advertisement for money is dishonest.

The product has been advertised for months as Testosterone gel and it was available without a prescription.

Now they are slightly changing the website propaqanda since it was pointed out that it contained no testosterone & was not legal to sell testosterone without a prescription.

They say it was a fake company that was doing it, not them.

Guys at this web site have said they purchased it from All Saints Clinic.  They have never mentioned a  prescription was needed.  

Why would someone use a prescription to purchase something over the internet from who knows where, when they could get real AndroGel or Testim Testosterone from the local pharmacy at the same price?

They could use a prescription to get compounded testosterone at about 1/5 the price.

Now they are advertising it as a gynecomastia reducer.
Are they now suddenly "Honest"?  I Don't think so.

Go to a doctor that specializes in hormones & get your male & female hormones tested.  He can give you a prescription for testosterobne or a Estrogen E2 reducer if you need one.

G

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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2005, 07:29:45 AM »
Thank you once again.

Im starting to think Hypo either works for the company that makes Andractim or has a lot of money invested in its stock or something. He's like the company spokesman trying to get people to spend $100's on a product that gives off false hope. The cases Andractim actually works for, are very rare. Very rare. Hypo stayed at a holiday inn express every night and thinks he's an Endocrinologist.


Vaio

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Offline jc71

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2005, 07:53:45 AM »
LOL. I don't know if they have that commercial in the UK.

I've heard of guys that have had good results with Andractim, but have heard of far more who haven't. Like everything else, what works for one may/may not work for someone else.

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Offline hypo

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2005, 08:16:56 AM »
I do not advocate self medication and I never have.

I do not care what that company that is selling Andractim  state about it!!!!!!

They are just a load of tossers and shouldn't be selling it- a pity they couldn't be closed down in my opinion.  

But that does not make Andractim any less useful a treatment in the hands of an endocrinologist.

Gine2d If that company started selling testosterone and stating a load of crap about testosterone would that make testosterone any less useful in the hands of an endocrinologist-  NO IT WOULD NOT!

and the same is true here.

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Why would someone use a prescription to purchase something over the internet from who knows where,
Unquote

I agree 100%

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when they could get real AndroGel or Testim Testosterone from the local pharmacy at the same price?
Unquote

Gine2D...you are not understanding/missing the whole point.

Androgel, Testim etc are testosterone and testosterone is an aromatizable androgen and that means it is not an appropriate treatment for gynecomastia.

Andractim on the other hand is a non aromatizable androgen that cannot be converted to estradiol hence its use in this setting, hence it success in this setting as detailed in controlled medical studies by endocrinologists.

You have to learn and understand the difference otherwise the argument is reduced to a futile misunderstanding of the matters involved.

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Now they are advertising it as a gynecomastia reducer.
Are they now suddenly "Honest"?  I Don't think so.
Unquote

Yes it is used for this purpose by endocrinologists in Europe and it is recommended for this use by Bensin International the company that manufacture it!!!!

This fact is not in question!

and has nothing to do with the fact that these tossers are selling something without a prescription- something they shouldn't be.

They shouldn't be selling Andractim, Andractim shouldn't be self medicated I am with you on this!!!!

But it wasn't them that decided that it could be used as a gynecomastia treatment, it was the phase 3 and 4 medical trials, endocrinologists and national medical regulatory bodies across Europe.

You need to know what you are talking about here before making statements- sorry Gine2d I know you mean well but half of what you are saying is wrong just as the other half of what you are saying is correct.

vaio,

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I’m starting to think Hypo either works for the company that makes Andractim or has a lot of money invested in its stock
Unquote

Please do not make unfounded accusations, or cast aspersions on my character. I have had to listen to such insults from you before-  they were out of order then and they are out of order now!!!!

The fact is I am presenting the truth about this medication no more and no less and I am doing it from an informed position, whereas you actually know very little about this medication.

I have championed the need for endocrinologists- yet I am not an endocrinologist.

I have championed the need for people to get pathology investigations, yet I do not have stock in any pathology laboratories and I am not a phlebotomist.

etc ect

I speak up for the truth- so that that people know the realities and have an idea of what options may be out there.

I do not accuse you of working for a plastic surgeon yet the only option you have ever advocated is surgery.

If you looked at what I have said on this website you would see that the only thing I am pushing for is freedom of accurate information.  

Surgery is the most successful option in treating gynecomastia for those that wish to get rid of it and is NOT in dispute (not that it doesn't have its own drawbacks 64% long term success rate- not 100% as you would think).

This is not a black and white issue.  There are a whole host of reasons as to why alternative therapies like Andractim have their place.

e.g.

For those that have recently developed gynecomastia drug therapies may be a better first line treatment.

For those that cannot afford surgery drug therapies offer an option/ a chance of getting rid of gynecomastia that they would otherwise not have.

For those that cannot have surgery for medical reasons, are afraid of surgery or have minor cases again drug therapies offer an alternative that some people may find be there only choice or find preferable.

P.S


You need to stop trying to reduce this whole issue to something that is black and white- and you need to stop throwing around unfounded accusations just because I fundamentally disagree with what you have to say.

 

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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2005, 08:19:36 AM »
Exactly but the thing that get me, is that I have yet to of come across before and after pictures of actuall noticable, visual results from the Andractim!

The Andractim expert... Hypo, only had 1 set of photos to back his claim up, and even thoes pictures don't show a thing!

My question is, if it actually works, why aren't there pictures?

Conslusion- Don't waste your money on an "experiment"

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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2005, 08:27:30 AM »
Hypo, you got proved wrong. You can stick out you toung as much as you want. I don't wish to read all the crap you type.


Now lets get back on topic.

**If Andractim actually works , where are the before and after photos, "showing an actual, VISUAL change"????* (There are NONE!)**

Its stupit for people to waste money on a product that won't rid them of it.

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Offline hypo

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2005, 09:22:29 AM »
Stop throwing insults around it is making you look like an idiot.

The fact that Andractim does work has been proven by the endocrinology studies irrespective of whether or not people have posted results on this site or not- (even though I disagree and believe that the link provided at the very least showed glandular reduction).

Like I have said before this simply isn't up for discussion!

Give me your address and I'll sent you a copy of the god dam report and you can read it and be;

'put straight on the matter'.

Anything else you wish to say on this subject can be directed at someone else-

I’m tried of your musings on a topic that you have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of.




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Offline Daveo

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2005, 09:32:10 AM »
Oy.  Who are you going to trust?  Endocrinology studies or people on this site who are living with the same condition that you are?  I'll trust the people on this site before I'll put my faith in a study.

It's like this...Andractim treatments are going to cost you hundreds of dollars which could be used towards surgery.  If it was free, sure I'll rub some miracle cream on my chest for a few weeks.  Unfortunately it's not free, and furthermore it's not going to work an overwhelming majority of the time, and the time that it does work, well it's probably not going to give you anywhere near the results you desire.

I think the bottom line is don't waste your money on Andractim when 99.9% of the people who do are going to end up getting surgery anyway, or wishing they had.

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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2005, 10:05:28 AM »
Closing statement:

Once again. There are NO BEFORE AND AFTER  photos showing a visual change from Andractim.



Re: Andractim
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2005, 12:17:04 PM »
I don't think you shoud order andractim by mail.

Just from looking at "Dr Steven Roles" picture on the All Saints site I can tell it's a scam. That guy just looks sleazy.

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Offline hypo

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2005, 12:41:06 PM »
The people who have bought Andractim are self medicating without having had the aetiology of their gynecomastia investigated, in many of these people Andractim would not be an appropriate treatment to start with because;

A) Some of them will have underlying causes that would mean it could not work

B) Some will have pseudo gynecomastia like vaio meaning it would not work.

C) Some of them have BDD meaning it will not work

Etc

Their is no point in saying Andractim does not work because the medical experts and studies state otherwise.

When endocrinologists use it as a treatment for patients with glandular gynecomastia with no underlying causative condition, particularly when such gynecomastia is of recent onset the fact is the studies show that in 75% of cases, glandular gynecomastia is reduced and in 25% of cases glandular gynecomastia is resolved.

These are undisputable facts!

They are results published by one of the countries leading endocrinologists and they are from controlled studies.

How many times do I have to say the following?

This site and people self medicating here are not controlled studies!!!!!! And not representative of the usefulness of this medication!!!!!

For crying out loud- I'm sure many treatments would have lower success rates if they were self medicated and many times in inappropriate people/cases.

Would chemotherapy work if it was self medicated by people who didn't have cancer?

You guys are just losing the plot- you think you have a handle on something that you can't comprehend.

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Miracle cream
Unquote

Daveo

This is just the type of pathetic statement I'm talking about.

It isn't a miracle cream as you sarcastically put it in an attempt to dismiss its relevance; it is the potent non aromatizable androgen/male hormone dihydrotestosterone.

It increases the balance androgens to estrogens in favor of androgens and lowers estradiol by lowering the conversion of testosterone to estradiol.

A poor androgen to estrogen balance is THE single greatest causative factor in the development of gynecomastia and Andractim redresses this balance.

If you are saying that hormones cannot reduce/resolve gynecomastia can you please account for the reduction/resolution of gynecomastia in 90% of pubertal boys?

In case you don't have an answer for that one I'll tell you-

In 90% of boys with gynecomastia their is an improvement in their androgen to estrogen balance and this reduces/resolves gynecomastia- the very same process as the product you mock!!!!

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It’s not going to work an overwhelming majority of the time
Unquote

75% reductions- 1 in 4 resolutions, so with all due respect you’re talking rubbish.

Quote
I think the bottom line is don't waste your money on Andractim when 99.9% of the people who do are going to end up getting surgery anyway
Unquote

If 1 in 4 people, 25% of people have complete resolution why would 99% of people go for surgery- again all due respect but this is total rubbish.

Also you are judging people by your own standards, for many people a good reduction in their gynecomastia would mean that they would not want to have surgery anyway.

And you know what my number one choice when it comes to dealing with gynecomastia is SURGERY- yes you heard that right- so you see I can hardly be said to be anti-surgery in any way at all.

It is just I don't like seeing a lot of rubbish talked by people who quite frankly don't seem to know their ass from there elbow- which you guys don't when it comes to this medication and yet your keen to show the world your ignorance.

Vaio

Your not in a court room- your closing statement as you put it has about as much relevance as urination against a wall when set against the expert sources that completely contradict your comments.











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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2005, 01:02:05 PM »
Quote
Closing statement:

Once again. There are NO BEFORE AND AFTER  photos showing a visual change from Andractim.




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Offline hypo

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2005, 02:12:25 PM »
Repeating the same statements over and over does not lend gravitas to your position- it just makes it boring.

This site is not a controlled study what oictures are posted here are not a reflection or lack of it of the realities.

By questioning the fact that Andractim reduces and resolves glandular gynecomastia you are effectively calling one of the countries leading endocrinologists a liar and you are calling his counterparts in many other countries where studies have been performed that have shown similar reults liars as well.

Who should we believe a kid who knows nothing whatsoever about the aetiology of gynecomastia or Glenn D Braunstein M.D endocrinologist.

A bit of a no brainer :P





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Offline vaio

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Re: Andractim
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2005, 02:33:58 PM »
Quote
Repeating the same statements over and over does not lend gravitas to your position- it just makes it boring.

Who should we believe a kid who knows nothing whatsoever about the aetiology of gynecomastia or Glenn D Braunstein M.D endocrinologist.

A bit of a no brainer :P








There are NO BEFORE AND AFTER  photos showing a visual change from Andractim use, thats all there is to it.



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