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6 months of ongoing gyno..

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6 months of ongoing gyno..
« on: August 16, 2010, 07:33:52 PM »
I have had gyno growing for the past 6 months now...since January.  I took a bodybuilding supplement and it has just been terrible since then.  I've been through depression..suicidal thoughts...anger..worry..everything.  I have another endocrinologist appt set up for Sept 1 (i have been to a couple doctors before) so I am hoping to get to the bottom of this.  The previous doctors are unsure why it is still growing.

My question is...how can I tell if it is fat or "breast tissue"?  I have a lump under both nipples, but there has been growth all over my chest/lats/back.  I now have about an inch of tissue (dunno if its fat or tissue tissue) that is covering my chest/lats/back.  I want to know if this can be removed..

How can I tell?  If I get an ultrasound done will they be able to differentiate for me?



Linkback: https://www.gynecomastia.org/smf/index.php?topic=21340.0

Re: 6 months of ongoing gyno..
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2010, 09:45:09 PM »
 Sorry to here that you haven't figure out what's causing it to keep progressing. I'm in somewhat of a similar situation to you. I developed large lumps under both nipples (they feel about the size of large grapes). Mine was caused by anabolics/HCG, and I'm still unsure why it developed 3 month after I stopped taking anything. I took PCT's coming off and did feel some sensation 2 1/2 month later but didn't believe  the rebound would come that long after. It's been about 3 month now since it developed and it seems like my new cone-shaped nipples are being pushed down under my pec muscles. I'm pretty sure I felt some of the emotions you've been going through. The thing that makes me the most upset is I didn't need to take shit, I was in good shape already. I just was lazy and decided to cheat my way to getting ripped for the spring on the beach. I haven't gone to see an Endo Spec, but I did get my blood work checked to see if screwed anything else in my body up, and everything seems O.K.....  
 
   It seems like your taking the proper steps and hopefully this next doctor will be more helpful than the ones in the past. The day I came back from the doctor to get a checkup/blood work my buddy passed away in a car accident. It was a good reminder that things can always be worse. I'm just going to save up money for surgery and take it as an expensive learning process.  

Curious to know what you took? Hang in there, and keep this thread updated if you would ?  Remember you're not alone on this website?


Good Luck
               Rick

Re: 6 months of ongoing gyno..
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 01:01:32 AM »
Hi, Rick.
I took "spawn"/"supremacy"...it's a stack of epi/tren.  I had taken it once in the past and everything went perfectly so I waited about six months and went for it again.  Tren/epi isn't known to aromatize, so I thought everything was fine.  I had everything on hand for proper pct...otc reversitol, nolva, milk thistle, cycle assist, etc.  But...something is still wrong.

Yeah i'll try to keep this updated.  I just really want some relief.  I can't explain how bad I feel everyday.  Everyday when you can feeling your nipples/chest/back/lats GROWING...EVERYday. 

Yeah, i want to be able to take this as an expensive learning process as well, but I'm getting worried that it's irreversible.  There is no slow down of the progression..and I'm not very optimistic about going to the doctor anymore just from my past experiences.  To top it off, i've been having knee problems that won't go away which is also affecting me...a lot. 

I'll let you know how things turn out....my appt is sept 1...can't come soon enough.

Re: 6 months of ongoing gyno..
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 03:42:25 AM »
When there's no reason for what's going on, I've always heard to try the Tamoxifen or prescription aromatase inhibitors like letrozole and anastrozole.  However, generally, only a specialist like an endocrinologist would prescribe these meds.  Your typical GP/family doctor won't get into these meds, but an endocrinologist should be familiar with them.  

But before doing any of this, your hormones need to be checked to rule out such things as pituitary tumors.  If all the tests come back negative, that's when you need to discuss the above meds with your doc.  If they won't prescribe them, find one who will.  They work, but they are heavy duty meds and are not to be messed around with.

The good news is that the human body is an amazing thing.  It has a way of eventually correcting things like this....given enough time.  Your hormones have been "tweaked," for whatever reason and remain out of balance.  But the body will eventually return to balance.  It could take 2 or 3 years....from what I've heard.  But it WILL eventually correct itself. 

Re: 6 months of ongoing gyno..
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 12:27:19 AM »
Raider Fan,
Thanks for your input.  I've already tried nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate)...no use.  My estrogen levels aren't high.  Everything is pretty normal except for my 17 alpha hydroxyprogesterone, but the doc said that that shouldn't be causing this so they don't know.  I am waiting patiently for my next endo visit...

Re: 6 months of ongoing gyno..
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 03:12:20 AM »
absec9.....as explained to me, Tamoxifen is given to reverse the sudden onset of gynecomastia (often seen in body builders and other weight lifters).  It reportedly works well if given in the early stages of gynecomastia, but not so well in the later stages, or after the tissue has already developed.  You can have gynecomastia even when your estrogen levels are within normal limits, but that would not preclude taking the Tamoxifen for a short time.  This is the information I have gleaned from my own research and speaking with my son, who is into body building.  Maybe some of the doctors here would like to chime in.

I first heard of using Tamoxifen from my son, but after some research, it is well documented to be useful in the early stages of gynecomastia.  My son believes that weight lifting, especially when you first begin, can spur a gynecomastia episode.  The reason for this is, he believes, is that the weight lifting increases testosterone and subsequently estrogen.  In short, it creates a hormonal imbalance.  He said it's happened to him more than once, and he uses the Tamoxifen ASAP to stop it in its tracks.  He has used it successfully in this way.  This is apparently well known within body building circles. The tendency to develop gynecomastia also seems to run in the family.  Not only do I have it, but my body building son has to fight it.  But he stops his by taking the Tamoxifen. 

The problem is, your family doctor likely will not know any of this and would not prescribe it.  You have to go to doctors who specialize in treating the condition to likely get a prescription for it.  I have no idea where body builders get it, but I know it's not prescribed by a doctor. 

Personally, it would scare me to take a powerful breast cancer drug (which is what Tamoxifen is) without supervision from a doctor.  But body builders are different.  They are in their own little world and seem to have no qualms about taking something that their friends say works.  They pass stuff freely around.  To me, this is drug abuse, but they seemingly have no fears. They are so obsessed with their bodies that they will do anything to improve them, even if what they are taking may, in the long run, be bad for their body.  It really makes no sense to me.

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Offline Paa_Paw

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Re: 6 months of ongoing gyno..
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 10:43:57 PM »
I agree with much of what Raider Fan said but I think that this has already gone on for too long. Trying to stabilize your reproductive hormones is not a "do it yourself job." This is truly a job for a professional. I think the time has come to leave the chemistry set alone and make an appointment with an Endocrinologist.

There is very little chance that your tampering will result in an improvement in your condition, but a high likelihood that you could make things worse or mask the problem making a true diagnosis more difficult.

On the plus side, The Endocrinologist is the one Dr. who may be familiar with off label use of the breast cancer drugs as you have suggested.
Grandpa Dan

Re: 6 months of ongoing gyno..
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2010, 07:17:17 PM »
Paa Paw,
I haven't been messing with things myself out of self stupidity, I have been to so many freakin doctors and they don't know what to do.  I went to the endocrinologist in March and I had around 13 hormone blood tests done and then my results came back in with one or two levels a little out of whack.  The doctor then told me he didn't know what to do and that I should go to another endocrinologist.  He also told me I was probably just making it up in my head bc the severity wasn't that bad at the time.  I was so angry! :(

I have been to at least 4 other regular family physicians and they are 100% useless. They tell me that it will just eventually stop.  But its been 6 months and everything is the same as day one. i'm going crazy. 
I have another appt scheduled for Sept 1...so I am anxiously waiting for it, yet in the back of my head I am thinking they won't have anything to say.

I purchased the tamox as a last resort, but it didn't do anything and I took it for weeks.  My estro levels aren't high though.

I was curious if this "new growth" on my back is just new fat cells that are growing bc my hormones are out of balance? and can it be removed easily??

thanks for you help

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Offline Paa_Paw

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Re: 6 months of ongoing gyno..
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2010, 12:39:48 AM »
Sorry if my last response seemed a bit flippant.

As you have now realized not all Doctors are equal when it comes to analysis of reproductive hormone levels. This is true even among Endocrinologists where one may have specialized in dealing with Diabetes and another in liver function etc. Neither of them would do you much good as you would need one who has specialized in reproductive problems. Medical specialties have become much narrower in recent years rather than broader. There are now many sub-specialties where there was once a doctor with a much broader specialty.

Trying to sort your way through such a maze can be frustrating to say the least. General practice physicians are seldom of much help when you are trying to get good answers on very specific issues.

All of that said, I think you should continue your search but with a narrower focus for the doctor with the specialized practice that suits your need.

The ultimate problem is that none of the hormones truly work alone but they interact with one another. For example, your Testosterone and Estrogen levels may both be within "normal" range individually but the relationship of them to each other and to other hormones could still be undesirable. Sorting things out requires a lot more specialized intellect than most people possess.

Re: 6 months of ongoing gyno..
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2010, 03:19:08 PM »
yeah...I will see how the sept 1 appt goes...and if not..then i'll have to search for a more specific endo.  I'll keep everyone updated though... :(


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