Author Topic: Non Surgical  (Read 4662 times)

Offline hawthorne

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Okay, so here's my deal...

I was a fat 12 year old.  From the time I was 12 to like 15, I was a chubby kid - with little boy boobies.  Then I got mono for which I was hospitalized and lost all the fat and became skinny-fat.  And I still had the roundy nips.  I know I still had them because I got thrown in a pool at a party while wearing a polo (alliterative...) when I was like 17, and when I got out this guy said, "Damn, you got some nice titties."  Awesome.  Then when I was about 21 I decided to get healthy and become a vegetarian.  For me that did not mean eating vegetables, it just meant eating a cheese pizza instead of one with pepperoni.  I'm 6 feet tall and at that point I was about 195 lbs.  Then I went through a period of concluding that the way to lose the excess weight was to essentially starve myself -- I got down to 138 pounds.  (This would be a decent time to acknowledge that I clearly have body image issues irrespective of whether or not I have a sincere medical condition.)  Where were we?  Ah yes...upon looking grey for a while and noticing that I still had no abs and puffy nipples, I decided to hit the gym.  I got up to between 155 and 160, which is where I pretty much stay.  I still wasn't eating well, but at least I was working out...

For a couple of years I had completely forgotten my belief that my chest was appalling to behold.  Then a few months ago a couple of things happened:

I work in television and was asked to do a scene without my shirt.  No worries.  I'm excellent, this'll be great.  When I took my shirt off, there was a brief and huddled producer/director discussion whereupon it was decided that the girl in the scene would still be partially undressed, but perhaps it would be better if I left my shirt on.  No other explanation was offered.  So...that was weird.  Then I started dating a girl I met at the gym.  Now, I mention this next part, not to brag, but to offer context and iterate a point I want to reinforce later.  --  And maybe to brag a little -- My girlfriend is an underwear model by trade and has a physique like a cartoon character.  It's stupid.  And shortly after we started dating, she playfully tweaked my chest through my shirt.

Me, "Why did you do that?"

Her, "Because they're cute."

.....................................................................

Did I mention I have a bunch of issues anyway?  Yeah, so...I pretty much spent the entire weekend in my house, on the Internet, trying to find the solution to my problem and blowing off a trip to Palm Springs, because, I mean, what?  Was I supposed to go sit by the pool now that I knew the world could see my hideous deformity?  I think not.

What I found at first blush is that there is this thing called Gynecomastia and that there is an entire website devoted to its discussion.  Sweet!  Well not so sweet.  I became really dismayed at the idea that the only solution to my concern was surgical, and that basically - I'm a freak.  But no matter.  At least there was a solution and I called a PS in Beverly Hills to set up my consultation.  I mean it was gonna be 7 grand, but if $7000 bought me peace of mind, wouldn't it be worth it?

I decided, no.

I instead chose to consult with my GP who specializes in pro athletes, and thus steroids, and thus had surely had seen Gyno before; and a personal trainer who could maybe shed some additional light.  And here's what happened:

My GP first just shook his head and told me to lighten up, saying that if I had "breasts" I would know it.  I said, "Can't you see what I see?"  He said, "Yeah, sure.  But you need to stop throwing around the idea that you have Gynecomastia so casually.  It's a real condition, and you're behaving like a child..."  Offended though I was, I considered his premise and asked him to please run tests on my hormone and endocrine levels anyway.  He did - they came back normal, by the by.

The trainer took a look at me and said, "You have too much body fat."  I said, "...Come again?"  He said, "You have too much body fat and apparently a hearing deficiency."  I told him there was no way, I'm a healthy 160 pounds, I work out regularly, etc.  He took a pair of calipers and measured my bf % at around 15%.  Totally acceptable and totally fine, but he went on to posit a theory of his relating to fat loss, fat storage, and muscle development.  He asserted that I wasn't eating enough food to lose the chest and the lower back fat I have continued to hold - pretty much my whole life.  He went into an array of explanations too detailed to recount here but it all made enough sense to give it a try.

So about three months ago I started a new agenda in lieu of surgery.  Even though the idea of eating more seemed anathema to my goal, and scared me to death, I started eating 5 or 6 meals a day and eating really, really clean. Counting calories, no red meat, free range chicken, fish, adding whey protein, all that stuff.  It's a drag, but that's life, isn't it?  Also, I began altering my workout routine to focus my lifting equally if not more on my back and shoulders, and my lower body.  Intermittent cardio has also been re-instituted.

My results have been that I'm up to 170 lbs and in addition to lowering my bf % to around 10%, my lower back fat has almost completely gone, my upper "two pack" has turned into like a 4 and a half, and most importantly my chest looks like...well...a chest.  Now here's the thing, I have no before and after photos to corroborate my point, and frankly the right side of my chest is still a little "puffier" than the left.  But I can see the difference, I feel better, and most of all I'm happier all the way around.  Endorphins maybe, who knows. -- I just had my 28th birthday and my mom sent me picture of me on my 7th birthday.  I was shirtless and wearing a cowboy hat.  I dunno what the hell was going on at that party...but the point is this - I'll never look like that flat chested little kid again, and y'know what else?  As I get older, my knees are gonna go, as will my vision, my hair, what's left of my sanity...whatever.  That's the way it is.

I am by no means condemning plastic surgery (I live in LA for crying out loud), nor am I deriding anyone on this board seeking solace.  I mean I'm here too.  I'm just saying the following things...

1) Apropos of the point I made much earlier, I had a beautiful girlfriend and a fine life before I became hyper-obsessed and made these changes.  I think seeing the good in what you have is important and noting how few posts are in the "Acceptance" section of this board, it may be a point to be recalled from time to time.

2) There are men on this site with a genuine medical concern.  There are also, I think, many of us who come here just to be confirmed or denied in our neuroses by people we've never met.  Support and encouragement is a critical and essential thing, but in a reflection of my 1st point - wondering and obsessing is no substitute for action.

and

3) I'm not saying that you should do what I did or that it will, in fact, work for you.  I don't know you.  But now you know my whole, long, boring story.  I feel certain some people may identify with it or at least parts.  If so, I would encourage trying the health/diet/true diligence thing 1st.  If you've lived this long, what can a few months hurt?  And besides, if surgery is to be your final option, wouldn't it be great to feel fit while recuperating so that when you're all patched up you can see the complete picture in the mirror and feel proud?

Or not.  It's up to you.  These are just my thoughts on an afternoon where I have a slight cold and am sitting in my living room with nothing on Tivo.

If you read this whole thing - well - good on ya.

Be well, be safe, and be happy...

Linkback: https://www.gynecomastia.org/forum/index.php?topic=6019.0

Offline hawthorne

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Thanks for the kindnesses.  

To answer your question, yes, I guess I did mean my "flanks".  Specifically, I didn't really have love handles, but instead something akin to them further around back.

In any case, thanks again, and I hope what I had to say has value for others.  Apparently this site has been in shorter supply of such a quality of late.

Me...I love everybody.

And...I love boobs.  So there you go.

I mean on ladies...boobs on ladies...let's not get it twisted...

I don't love....awww, forget it...

Offline Paa_Paw

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One point that you make is worth bringing out for a bit more attention.

Your Girlfriend thought your breasts were "cute" .  

This is a much more common reaction than many of us would believe.

Usually, our greatest enemy and the person who berates us most, is ourselves.
Grandpa Dan

Offline kennyb

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Well, congrats on writing so well and being so good-looking that you have a hot girlfriend.  

As for gyno, you may not have it.  May have just been 'fat'...there is something called pseudogynecomastia.

But many of us have actual GLANDS.  I don't have it bad enough that people comment on it, but I notice it.

Offline Paa_Paw

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We all have at least some fat there, and we all have glands there. The proliferation of either gives us an enlarged breast and could be called Gynecomastia.

I get tired of people claiming bragging rights because they percieve that they have a higher ratio of gland to fat.

The only place where the term Pseudo-Gynecomastia is apropriate is with reference to individuals who are grossly obese. Even they have Glands though however little it contributes to the overall breast mass.

Offline kennyb

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I'm not looking for bragging rights and I get tired of your overall know-it-all-ness.

Glands don't reduce with diet.  So suggesting "hey all, I made it go away with diet", is nice, but won't work for most.  If diet made his gynecomastia go away, then by definition, it was pseudo-gynecomastia.  

Do you know what pseudo means?  It means FALSE.  As in if you can reduce it with diet, then it wasn't gyno in the first place.  As for "only relevent with clinically obese people", give me a cite for that.  Oh, you can't.  He didn't sound clinically obese and his "gyno" reduced with diet, thus BY DEFINITION he had pseudo-gynecomastia.

Everyone has glands, brilliant.  You are simply brilliant.  So someone with an unnoticeable gland is thus the same as someone with a gland the size of a baseball.  If diet works on guy #1, then it'll work on guy #2?

Women have glands, men have glands.  Thus they are the same?  If women diet they will be as flat chested as some men?  
« Last Edit: July 20, 2006, 07:30:49 AM by kennyb »

Offline kennyb

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I'm not bitter of the guy at all.  I said congrats and I meant it.  I also congratulated him on writing well.  I meant that too.  You might take a lesson from him.  Paragraphs are nice.

I don't think he had full gyno, nor am I proud of having it.  I don't have it that bad or I'd have surgery, although I still might.

My response was to the know it all Paa paw (I think he's the guy that proudly wears a bra).

And I never said "you sorted it out and got a nice girl".  But if I had, that's not exactly a bitter, spiteful thing to say.  Far from it.  So your comment is inexplicable.

Looks like you're the one who needs a shower.

You need to learn how to use paragraphs and avoid run-on sentences too.


Offline kennyb

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Yes, you can tell my sincerity or lack thereof.  Illiterate loser.  LOL.

You're the first person whose writing I've commented on.  It's just so hard to read.  

Offline hawthorne

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Well, good morning everyone.

I feel like I bear some responsibility in the way of addressing and clarifying a couple of items...

I completely agree with the point made regarding the way in which we (all of us as people, not just people here - nor the royal 'we') berate ourselves.  I definitely wanted to note that in my original post.  Had I been in a state of self confidence to begin, then by and large when addressed as having cute tee-tas (or when kids used to make fun of my nose, or ears, or haircut...or acne...or that I, y'know...suck at football - American...strong arm, no accuracy...) I wouldn't have cared quite so much.  Self assessment is a tricky bitch.

As for me being good-looking...yeah, not that much more than anybody else.  My lady friend is waaaay out of my league.  I am however, charming as hell, and to reinforce what I wrote above, when I'm on my game I come across as totally self possessed and confident.  The problem for me isn't starting relationships, it's keeping them once I let my freak flag fly.  Again, strong arm, no accuracy.

To the important bit...the chest thing.  Yeah, I dunno.  Like I said, my chest is still a bit of a cry from where I would like it to be.  As I said, my right pec is still larger than my left, and not in a good way.  I have no idea if it's just fat, or if it's weird bone structure, or if I have some glandular tissue, or what.  That said, having gotten myself into an overall fitter state I am simply happier (that may be too strong a word)...more content with the way I look.  Had I gone to surgery immediately, I'm sure I would also be content, but I wouldn't have known that an alternative existed for me.  And that's all I was trying to say.  Again - again, this is just my experience with my body and what happened in my circumstance.  I won't be in the state I'm in now forever, I'm sure.  But I have people scrutinizing the way I look all the time, so I'm just trying to find a way to cut myself a break.  The world is quick enough to judge.  Word?  Word.

And as far as my paragraph structure goes...I just bought a program at the Mac store called "IgynoBoardParagraphCreate."  I thought, "Well, it seems kinda specific, but you never know..."  Lucky that.

When left to mine own devices I'm a terrble spiller and have know ideea how too write anything and wood prolly jus create runonsentences for daze and daze and daze and daze and....

Apparently, I'm auditioning to be the f'ing court jester of Gynecomastia.org.

Okay...another time my friends...

Offline Worrier

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Yes, you can tell my sincerity or lack thereof.  Illiterate loser.  LOL.

You're the first person whose writing I've commented on.  It's just so hard to read.  


Perhaps you can get your carer to wipe the  monitor for you because you have been licking it too much you MONG.  And then maybe you can read what Asmallmeasure wrote as I can understand exactly what he said.  Criticising someone on their spelling and Grammar , the refuge of someone who cannot debate. Must try harder next time when you decide to gob off.  

Hawthorne.Excellent post. I was helped in a big way by diet and exercise. My PS intitally said I had a moderate case. A year and a bit later and she said I don't need surgery. I don't entirely agree but even I can see the change. You don't need to prove nothing. You're not selling nowt. Apart from some good advice. Sure diet/exercise won't work for some but I reckon especially if you are already on the chubby side it's worth  doing.

Respect to you.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2006, 01:44:09 PM by Worrier »

Offline kennyb

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He criticized me first.  And pretended he could read my mind by reading "bitterness" in a post saying congrats on having a hot girlfriend.  (It was obvious to him...probably because he is a loser who would be bitter?).

So darn you, worrier.  I remember your posts about all your blood tests.  You are in a bad way.  

Offline kennyb

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First of all, you assumed I was being "bitter and jealous" when I said "good for you" to the original poster.  Now why would that be?  Because you are a bitter, jealous loser who can't imagine anyone else not being the same.  That is a very common trait in people.  You probably read his post and were bitter (typical loser), so you assumed I must be too.  You were wrong.  

Instead of saying "gee maybe I was wrong", you insisted you were right and I must be lying.  There's simply no way I could not be a bitter, jealous loser.  Again, the reason you would think so is because you are a bitter jealous loser and can't imagine anyone else not being so.

Maybe I'm just older than you (and probably have alot more money) so having a hot girlfriend is not the be all and end all of life.

Secondly, I don't believe you have a "good life" or "nice fiance".  Anyone who is a native English writer who writes as poorly as you is simply unintelligent.  You probably have a very poor job, if you have one at all.  Hot women don't usually go for guys who have gyno and can't express themselves.

Lastly, I don't have dandruff or a scabby head.  Nice of you to look up all my previous posts, you obsessive loser.


Offline Worrier

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He criticized me first.  And pretended he could read my mind by reading "bitterness" in a post saying congrats on having a hot girlfriend.  (It was obvious to him...probably because he is a loser who would be bitter?).

So darn you, worrier.  I remember your posts about all your blood tests.  You are in a bad way.  


Oh noes I had a few blood tests... lots of guys would freak if they grew breasts and they didn't know why. Christ that was what a year and bit ago. Can't you do better than that? .I suggest you go through my posts posts again and find something better.

And the good thing is my gyno is almost not noticeable and I can go swimming etc so will you make catty remarks about me too?But I don't have a 'hot' girlfriend so maybe you won't.

The only reason I commented at all on what you wrote is because you went off about someones spelling and grammar and I think that is rather low. And you weren't too nice to Paw Paw either whom I like.He is one of the oldest members on this site in terms of age so give him a bit of respect. I was just going to send best wishes to hawthorne until I saw that. I really couldn't care who said what to who. Get over yourself.

You might be hurting m8 but you don't need to take it out on other people.  
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 03:18:49 AM by Worrier »

Offline kennyb

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You're still an illterate loser.  Somehow I don't believe you graduated "university".  And using normal spelling and grammar isn't something you have to force yourself to do if you know how to.  You'd have to force yourself not to.

You're a loser.  Call it general experience, but I don't see you as anything other than an illiterate loser with a menial job, if any.

You don't believe I said "good for you" to the original poster without being 'jealous' and I don't believe you even have a job or a fiance.  It's not the gyno that women would find unattractive, it's the lack of job, income, and inability to speak.  

If my 12 year old wrote like you, I'd sue the school system.  I never comment on people's writing but you wanted criticism, so you got it.

And as for 'worrier', I remember your posts from way back.  I didn't have to look them up.  You sound like you are in a very bad way, overall.  Don't remember what your blood tests were but you were just bad off, a pathetic case, as I recall.  

I never made any catty comments to the original poster.  
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 07:35:48 AM by kennyb »

Offline Grandpa Bambu

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Brilliant, and i mean BRILLIANT. One of the best post's on this site. Good on ya mate.

Agreed....   ;)

As for coecrrt spllieg, Grammar and runonsentences, does it really matter? We are not at Mensa.com here ;). Gynecomastia.org is a world wide (as in WorldWideWeb) public domain accessible BBS. The boys/girls, men/women who visit this Site are from different cultures and have varying intellects. Isn't it possible to accept them for who they are, rather than berating them?

Those who 'make fun of' others who lack acedemic skills are no better than those 'flat chested' guys ostracizing those who have Gynecomasia.  ;)

BTW....  'Prolly' and 'Daze', are merely slang my man, not uneducated script. Chill 'DEWD'!   Word?

John.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 08:59:57 AM by Bambu »
Surgery: February 16, 2005. - Toronto, Ontario Canada.
Surgeon: Dr. John Craig Fielding   M.D.   F.R.C.S. (C) (416.766.8890)
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